Has Yamaha Gone Too Far with Electronic Suspension?

[John d]

So, I guess on the other hand, my brakes will last longer with a standard clutch. I'm not sure I really want to go any faster than I already do.

[NTXFJR]

I've found that there is plenty of engine braking capability on these slipper units. Not sure how much braking there is compared to a non slipper system but it's far from slippery imo. I'm not a real aggressive rider except maybe when in Arkansas trying to keep up with a pack of hooligans, and even then not really that aggressive. I kept her in third gear and the compression braking was just fine in the turns. I would not have bought a bike solely because it had a slipper clutch, but it is a nice touch imo to have an easier pull lever.

[Mr Bill]

I've found that there is plenty of engine braking capability on these slipper units. Not sure how much braking there is compared to a non slipper system but it's far from slippery imo. I'm not a real aggressive rider except maybe when in Arkansas trying to keep up with a pack of hooligans, and even then not really that aggressive. I kept her in third gear and the compression braking was just fine in the turns. I would not have bought a bike solely because it had a slipper clutch, but it is a nice touch imo to have an easier pull lever.

where the heck is that plus 1 button?

slipper on my ktm matches up engine speed with road speed pretty quick. Maybe a second? You are probably going to loose more engine brake without the slipper because you need to blip the throttle.

[wheatonFJR]

So, I guess on the other hand, my brakes will last longer with a standard clutch. I'm not sure I really want to go any faster than I already do.

Does this mean El Toro Joe is gonna kick my ass all over the twisties now with that racing slipper clutch?

He can probably ride circles around me one handed now.

[NTXFJR]

Lol! Nice! ^^^^
Haven't met Joe yet Wheatie, but I'm pretty sure you'd make him work for it! jsns!

[Redfish]

Since I enjoy an argument (I meant to say discussion!) and it is always fun to disagree with Twigg, I will jump in.

Yamaha has steadily improved this platform. It was not intended to be a "Touring Bike" like a GoldWing. It was not intended to be a sport bike either. It was intended to be a Sport Tourer. Your definition of what a Sport Tourer is supposed to be depends on you.

We all take this platform and modify it to suit our tastes. Some of us want more wind protection, others want less. Some of us need more long distance comfort, some of us better handling. Some want it to look better, others don't care how it looks. We all get out of it what we put into it.

Wind Protection: Yes, the ST1300 blocks more wind. Yes, the R1200RT blocks even more. But is that better? It is if you live where it is cold. Down here in Swampy Flatlandistan I found the R1200RT intolerable in summer riding conditions. There was no breeze at all behind that fairing. I was like a pork roast in an oven on that thing. Where I live, for ME, the FJR has the "Best" wind protection available. Not too much, not too little. Just Right.

The Seat: This one has been beaten to death. Seat Discussions are becoming a Pain in the Ass for me. I never rode a bike with a Perfect Seat. I have found that sending a set of seat pans off to a Custom Seat Builder is not that damned difficult. What no one ever seems to realize is that the FJR pans are nearly ideal for customization. The seat may not be perfect right out of the box but it is a solid, flat platform that is easy to work with for the right craftsman. I will settle for that.

Suspension: Be honest, how many of us can actually ride to the potential of, or properly adjust our suspension? I sure as hell can't. I love my ES but I like it just as much for the look of the blacked out USD forks as I do for the performance. I do use the adjustment for changing loads, road conditions, and activities. It does what I want it to do but so does the suspension on the A model. What is important here is that Yamaha has made an effort to keep improving and offering us choices.

Clutch/Transmission: I have no strong feelings on this one. Yamaha has kept the bike current and competitive and this is just a step in the evolution of the class. It would not be a deal breaker for me but I can see how those with weak, limp wrists would appreciate the lighter clutch pull. Okay, that part was a joke. Don't get mad. Like Twigg said, the lighter clutch pull can get to be a BFD in traffic.

Overall, the FJR is one big compromise that is the result of several smaller compromises. No one can build a motorcycle that is perfect for everyone. Thankfully we have forums like this one to show us how to modify this wonderful bike to suit each of us better.

[Twigg]

^^^^
Since the best way for me to annoy Redfish is to be very agreeable, I will simply say "Good Post"

Actually, it was a very good post.

[OldButNotDead]

Since I enjoy an argument (I meant to say discussion!)

Yamaha has steadily improved this platform. It was not intended to be a "Touring Bike" like a GoldWing. It was not intended to be a sport bike either. It was intended to be a Sport Tourer. Your definition of what a Sport Tourer is supposed to be depends on you.
I think you are spot on.

Suspension: Be honest, how many of us can actually ride to the potential of, or properly adjust our suspension? I sure as hell can't. I love my ES but I like it just as much for the look of the blacked out USD forks as I do for the performance. I do use the adjustment for changing loads, road conditions, and activities. It does what I want it to do but so does the suspension on the A model. What is important here is that Yamaha has made an effort to keep improving and offering us choices.
This is where where we part ways. At least here in the SE there have always been a significant group of FJR rides who are well into the "sport" sid of Sport Tourning. The suspension, especially the rear shock left a lot to be desired. Even in the early days there were lots of group buys for Wilbers, Penske, etc to fix that, AND you didn't have to be a road racer to see the improvement.

Clutch/Transmission: I have no strong feelings on this one. Yamaha has kept the bike current and competitive and this is just a step in the evolution of the class. It would not be a deal breaker for me but I can see how those with weak, limp wrists would appreciate the lighter clutch pull. Okay, that part was a joke. Don't get mad. Like Twigg said, the lighter clutch pull can get to be a BFD in traffic.
Personally, I never had a problem with the clutch pull. It was ok on both my Gen II and III. Where I do take exception with our illustrious group of engineers is on the slipper clutch issue. The advantages stated on engine braking are valid primarily for the racing community. How many of you can honestly say you take advantage engine braking that was discussed. The FJR has excellent brakes and I for one can control speed way better with my brakes than trying to engine brake. What I do see is when I am cramming the bike into a turn anticipating blasting out on the other side the slipper reduces the possibility of misjudging gear, brake and engine speed so the bike doesn't lurch to the side possibly braking traction.

.

[wheatonFJR]

^^^
Do you have a 16 now? Your profile shows a 14.

[raYzerman]

Only my opinion.... It seems to me most bikes are designed for the average joe that is likely to comprise the majority of buyers. Thus you are going to have compromises or features missing so they can meet a price point. The Honda ST and Goldwings have softie toftie suspensions and not a lot of features, exception Goldwing if you want to load up with a higher model. Goldwings sell though, and presumably make a decent profit. ST is dead hasn't been changed ever. The sport touring market is dwindling rapidly. I'll bet if 100-200 2016 FJR's were sold it would be a miracle. It's gonna die one day, but Yamaha is doing what it can to hang on to the sport touring market. The C14 doesn't have much to covet over an FJR. The R1200RT water cooled is sweet, a great tourer by all reports, not overly powered, lots of gadgets (too many, too expensive). If you were Yamaha what would you do?

Bring on throttle by wire and cruise, it was amazing. '13's sold. Bring on red and ES, wowzer sold a buncha 14's. Bring on blue, a six speed and a slipper clutch, sold a few '16's or at least made everyone look. '17 will be a hard sell, my prediction.... nothing there.

ES to me (or anyone liking good suspension) was a marketing copy of BMW gadgetry. I don't want to offend the ES guys, but it is an oversimplified suspension as it is on the BMW. At least provide some individual damping adjustments, Yamaha, it woulda been a cut above and all it is is a bit of code... To offend the A guys, we got the same old two spring rear shock (although better), single side damping adjustable forks with progressive springs to feed our softie butts. Why couldn't Yammie give us a version of USD R1 forks that would have (IMHO) made us all happy? Cheaper? Dunno. Marketing, does wonders. Yammie made their decision based on how many bikes they could sell. What's the downside..... the market is dying and they know it. Just so you know, I'm willing to help fix up both ES and A suspensions as I think they can be fixed. Those USD forks are nice.

We got a seat that hasn't changed since 2006..... they know it and are happy not to cater to all the individual butts. Competition does it too, so why change. You can get the comfort seat, just to say they offer an alternative, butt....... you'll want better.

Wind protection - I had an ST and a GL, coveted an RT..... supposedly you'd love an RT. But Redfish gave you the real rundown on all that fairing stuff. I got the FJR because it was lighter and slimmer, and love the two I've had more than any other bike I've had.

Windshields - sold for showroom looks, same deal as seats. At least you can get a touring windshield option at a fairly good price.

Slipper clutch and six speed. Not that we needed either, but it's what the kool kids want, or so Yamaha will market to you and show that they are not standing still. I do believe they want to be the last man standing in the sport touring market, and looks like they will be. Nevertheless, I say we don't need either, but I'd like to try one and see if 6 is better than 5. If there were a 5 and a 6 sitting there tomorrow for the same price, I'd take the 6. Sure. I see the benefits of the slipper..... cheap enough to do. I might, because I can not because I need it.

So, we got all these compromises. We also got a bike at a good price point, less expensive than the competition. I'd rather have spent a little more for a couple of things, but with the Gen3 I'm good. I like good suspension but I haven't spent anything yet. TBW and cruise are worth every penny.

Oh yes, can I bitch about the lack of warranty.... something the competition actually has.

[Geezer]

Well, I can't say if Yamaha has gone too far or not far enough, but I was at the Progressive motorcycle show on Friday and Yamaha had a very nice large display. There was no interest in the FJR other than some curiosity about the Police model they had on display.

[Redfish]

Since this forum lacks a "Like" button, I will just have to do this manually.

Ray=Like
Twigg=Like

I love the FJR. I spent my father's money on an FJR back in 2007 and a few times I have questioned my decision. He has not. I spent my own money on my 2015 and I am just as positive now as I was then that the FJR was and is The Perfect Bike for me. YMMV.

[palerider]

Has Yamaha Gone Too Far with Electronic Suspension?

No.

[Hppants]

I had 5 minutes with a Yamaha executive at COTA during MotoGP in April. I can't be sure of his exact title, but in my memory, he was a big wig. It's hard to separate the sincerity from the marketing BS, but the dude knew his products. He said that Yamaha knew that the FJR had a loyal following. They knew that the demand for a 6th gear was high. I told him about my 4 basic gripes (black paint on wheels, crappy Bridgestone OE tires. reverse the linked braking, and the horrible stock rear rack) and he indicated that he would make sure Yamaha knows this (we'll see).

He also indicated that (at that time) Yamaha is scheduled to continue the FJR through 2021.

One thing I asked him was for a teaser for the 2017 FJR. He told me that "something would return by popular demand". I was convinced it would be the AE model.

Turns out it was the black color, I guess.

http://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.ph ... ?p=1302197

[OldButNotDead]

^^^
Do you have a 16 now? Your profile shows a 14.

Had an 06 which I played with suspension a lot, AK20, Penske.
Have a 14A which I put in a HP 461 and although stock was better than Gen II, I don't believe it is better or worse than an ES.
Even if I did have a 17 FJR, the outcome would be the same, I'll ride the GS 99% of the time. It has 6 speeds but 5 would do, Electronic suspension which I usually set before I leave the garage, ABS and Traction Control, both of which rarely engage.

[Steel_Gin]

Have they gone too far offering an ES? No. It's just the evolution of the product, which I expect and glad to see. It also keeps us opening up our wallet to buy another one as well as keep the production line rolling.

Is the ES too much for me? Yes. I'm still in the mind set that there is more to go wrong with it. I've read a lot of people say how much they love it, a few have said they played when they first got it and rarely change once the newness wore off. I haven't read of any real problems with the system so that isn't why I wouldn't get an ES. What would stop me for getting an ES over an A is the unknown expense down the road for repair/rebuild; which isn't too logical since I haven't read of anyone having to do this yet so I know the longevity/durability is there.

When I got my '12 if I had the option of leaving off the heated grips I would have just to save some money. Since it came with them I have used them a lot and glad on several occasions I have them. With that said, when it's time for a new FJR and a Blue ES was the only model offered I'll happily buy it. Sometimes people need a little push to try something new and improved; it's then you realize your concerns were without merit and you were foolish in not embracing it sooner.

[BuddhaBiker]

A lot of really good observations! Originally, I was deciding between the Triumph Trophy (clutch too stiff), the FJR, Concourse (no cruise) and the BMW R1200RT. They are all basically luxury sport tourers, with some more towards either the touring or the sporty side. They all have trade-offs and compromises that have been made. With the right farkles a person can make it more sporty or more touring...whatever is best for them.

I owned the RT for a while, but found it too much toward the luxo-touring side for me. Too tall, wide, top-heavy. One of the things that I grew to hate is that the windscreen blocked virtually ALL the air, so it was claustrophobically hot in the summer on over 90-100° days.

I find the FDR to be more towards the sporty side, but have discovered that is just too wide in the seat, and heavy as a tank to move around in the garage & in parking lots. A review I subsequently read referred to it as having "wide birthing hips" or like "trying to straddle a coffee table", and it "weighs the same as a small planet". A little bit of hyperbole, but pretty accurate. It's all subjectively relative though, just like perceptions of heat and vibration.

I dropped it once, and nearly have several more times. Of course it doesn't help that I have a 29 inch inseam and am closing in on 60, and not as strong as I used to be.

I'm fairly certain that I'm going to be trading it in soon for a KTM 1290 Super Duke GT (as soon as my broken collar bone heals). I've demo ridden it three times. It's SO much lighter than my FJR (about 150 lbs), so it's MUCH more nimble and less tiring in the twisties, and easier to park & push around! It's definitely more toward the sporty side of the continuum.

However, the suspension and the seat are not as compliant as the FJR. I don't relish the thought of going back to chain maintenance, it vibrates more, doesn't have front running lights like the FJR, no centerstand, parts and maintenance costs will probably be higher, and unsure of the overall reliability. However, the lightness and torque makes it more fun and less work to ride (for me) than the FJR, and I like the bright orange color for visibility.

I wish the FJ-09, Versys and GSX-S 1000 had cruise control, as those bikes would be a less expensive alternative, but that's a must have for my wrist problems.

As close to "perfect" the SDGT will be for me, I'll probably still have to put bar risers on it, due to my wrist and back issues. I guess it's near impossible to make a perfect all-around-er for everyone, and the best the manufactures can do is to come up with a good base platform that people can customize to suit what they need.


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[Twigg]

You know that cruise control can be added to almost any bike from as little as $250?

A factory system is the best option, and throttle-by-wire makes it a no-brainer, but lack of cruise doesn't need to be high on the decision tree.

[Harald]

I'm thinking that electronic suspension will be in the same category as heated gear for me. I rode for many years with no heated gear when I lived in Georgia and Florida. Don't laugh because I experienced below freezing in both places. In 07 I bought my FJR and decided to go full time riding again. I own a truck, but it virtually never gets used because the FJR is so much more fun and gets much better gas mileage. Because it's cold and rainy all winter here in the Seattle area, I invested in a heated liner. Now I can't imagine riding without heated gear. Is it absolutely necessary? Nope, but it sure is nice.

I'll have a Gen III someday and look forward to all the incremental improvements that have been made to this platform since my 07. But I'm also too frugal to justify a new bike yet because my 07 only has 117,000 miles on it and still runs great and also I want to cross the 200,000 mile threshold for the first time.

But what really excites me about the 16 and newer FJR is the cornering lights. I know, I'm probably the only one. But if they work as advertised, they will be supremely useful for me. My daily commute starts and ends on a dark, windy rural road and it's really hard to see around those dark, tight corners unless I have my high beams on and cars approaching force me to run blind with low beams until they pass. Those corner lights have the potential to greatly increase safety every day for my riding situation.

[OldButNotDead]

You know that cruise control can be added to almost any bike from as little as $250?

A factory system is the best option, and throttle-by-wire makes it a no-brainer, but lack of cruise doesn't need to be high on the decision tree.

What you said is factual, but I don't buy that it should not be high on the decision tree. Especially when you get older and still run 4-500 mile day trips, CC is the best thing since buckwheat as you begin to tire.