Front Brake Pads...

[FJRoss]

With the recent discussion on replacing front rotors, I was wondering what people were doing with brake pads and whether this was a contributing factor toward rotor wear. I didn't replace a rotor in 295,000 km on my '07 (although it had been a few years since I measured them). 135,000 km on the 2011 and rotors are still well within spec. Don't know what the previous owner of the 2011 did with pads but I haven't changed them since I bought the bike 70,000 km ago - pads may be original. (I am not especially hard on brakes.) Will probably replace them next year - doing the rear pads this week. Not terrible but close enough - might be able to get another season out of them. I usually change pads BEFORE the specified 0.8 mm thickness (rear) or before the fronts get to the bottom of the wear indicator groove. Metal-on-metal will kill the rotor pretty quickly.

On my '07, I ran the OEM pads until they were done and replaced them with EBC HH (sintered) pads. I find they work just about the same as OEM, last almost as long and aren't especially hard on the rotors. Around here, you pay about the same per package as OEM but you get FOUR per pack instead of TWO for the OEM. Although more aggressive toward rotors, I much prefer sintered metallic pads to "organic" - better stopping power and longer life. The only pads that I have heard to be very hard on rotors was Carbone Lorraine - heard from a couple of sources.

Whenever I have the front wheel off for any reason, I have a good look at all eight pads. If they are wearing unevenly, I usually swap inside pads with outside and sometimes left caliper to right caliper. The lower right (linked to rear brake) wears more slowly so those pads sometimes get swapped with others. (Good time to clean and lube slider pins and clean the pad retaining clips) I have even been known to replace just a couple of pads with new if most of the rest still have lots of meat on them but if most are below 25% or so, I'll do them all. Pads are automatically self-centering so replacing just one thinner pad with a thicker one isn't an issue. (Owner's manual says to replace in pairs.)

About once per year, I'll take out the pads, clean everything up and use silicone grease on the slider pins. After de-crudding the calipers, I carefully extend the pistons partway and clean them using a soft cloth - don't want to push dirt back into the seals. I generally flush and bleed the brakes after that. Never had to replace brake seals or pistons either. I think this is important for longevity of both rotors and pads - if they are dirty, they won't retract fully. (Regular removal and cleaning/lubing slider pins will make them last forever - Yamaha wants over $30 EACH for them although I understand that there is a cheaper Honda pin that works perfectly as a replacement - thanks Ray.)

Recently did seals and bushings on my front forks. They had been leaking on and off since last year and the brake calipers were saturated with fork fluid and a nasty paste that included brake dust and dirt (mixed with the fluid). Took over an hour, a whole roll of paper towels and a bunch of Varsol to clean them up. (Don't like using brake cleaner) Nice thing about sintered metallic pads is that the oil doesn't seem to hurt them very much. After cleaning and re-installation, they worked like new (after a couple hard stops) and I am confident that structural integrity is just fine. Nice to have proper brakes again after the fork oil soak.

So:
Do you regularly clean and service calipers?
Ever have to replace caliper seals? (What mileage?)
OEM or aftermarket pads? (What brand?)
Swap pads around or change all at once?
How many miles (kilometers) do you get out of a set of pads?
Ever have to replace rotors?

Owner's manual says:

• Replace the oil seals on the inner parts of the brake or clutch master cylinders, caliper cylinders and clutch release
cylinder every two years.
• Replace the brake and clutch hoses every four years or if cracked or damaged.

I haven't done either in over 400,000 FJR kilometers on two bikes in a dozen years - have you?

[CollingsBob]

I kinda looked at my front pads the last time I had the front wheel off. I replaced the stock caliper pins with the Honda ones 2 years ago.

Because this thread guilted me into it, I just removed, cleaned, checked the pads, lubed, put anti-seize on the threads and reassembled it all..

[extrememarine]

Do you regularly clean and service calipers? - Yes, annually during the winter off season. I scrub each caliper, cleaning out any residue around the pistons.
Ever have to replace caliper seals? (What mileage?) - No.
OEM or aftermarket pads? (What brand?) - EBC HH
Swap pads around or change all at once? - check and rotate front pads on each tire change.
How many miles (kilometers) do you get out of a set of pads? 40k-50k miles.
Ever have to replace rotors? No.

I've always swapped to EBC HH pads. To me, they seem to have a little sharper initial bite during aggressive braking vs OEM yet last as long as OEM and have never caused undo wear to the rotors.

[raYzerman]

Do you regularly clean and service calipers? Yes, every tire change
Ever have to replace caliper seals? (What mileage?) No, but have a set in my stash
OEM or aftermarket pads? (What brand?) Generally used OEM, have also used EBC and tried Carbone Lorraine
Swap pads around or change all at once? Swap or replace as necessary
How many miles (kilometers) do you get out of a set of pads? Never kept track, keep decent old ones as emergency spares
Ever have to replace rotors? No, but have used Chinese rotors for the spare wheels

Some prefer an organic pad, some like sintered. OEM's pricey. Tried Carbone Lorraine's once, ceramic and not meant for street really, ditched them early on. Probably good at the track. They leave a funny dust.
OEM Hondas are sintered, I use EBC on them. OEM Yammy (Nissin) seem to be more organic. The Kawi I have now has Tokico calipers, and I read it on the interweb must be true.... those OEM pads can leave a residue on the rotors.... the brakes feel soft on that bike, may be getting some EBC's in the near future as I figure all that out. The Kawi has ABS but no linky at all.

I don't know why Yammy didn't put a larger one piece pad on the left front like most other bikes, they would wear more evenly... I get it on the right with the linked brakes, but Yammy shoulda done linked like Honda with three pistons per caliper, full size pads and middle piston is linked, both front and rear. Then there are some Honda guys who think that is "too linked"..... I actually like them.

As for caliper pins, personal preference but I always have avoided any lube on the pins.... thinking dry will not attract dirt that might impede pad movement.... FJR pads can wear unevenly, which is due to some impeding of free movement... maybe I should try lube. My old '14 is coming up for a brake service (squeaking apparently), we'll give it a go..... I'll see that bike again in a week or so....

[N4HHE]

OEM Hondas are sintered, I use EBC on them. OEM Yammy (Nissin) seem to be more organic. The Kawi I have now has Tokico calipers, and I read it on the interweb must be true.... those OEM pads can leave a residue on the rotors.... the brakes feel soft on that bike, may be getting some EBC's in the near future as I figure all that out. The Kawi has ABS but no linky at all.

That I've seen of late OE (not OEM) Honda calipers are made by Nissin (the OEM).

FJR rear caliper is not Nissin. Think the rear is Koyo. Caliper is not obviously marked but the OE pads are.

I don't know why Yammy didn't put a larger one piece pad on the left front like most other bikes, they would wear more evenly... I get it on the right with the linked brakes, but Yammy shoulda done linked like Honda with three pistons per caliper, full size pads and middle piston is linked, both front and rear. Then there are some Honda guys who think that is "too linked"..... I actually like them.

I don't see how "linked" brakes are anything but a bandaid to appease liability lawyers afraid of those who will not use the front brake.

As for caliper pins, personal preference but I always have avoided any lube on the pins.... thinking dry will not attract dirt that might impede pad movement.... FJR pads can wear unevenly, which is due to some impeding of free movement... maybe I should try lube. My old '14 is coming up for a brake service (squeaking apparently), we'll give it a go..... I'll see that bike again in a week or so....

A friend brought me his CB1100 wheels and tires to mount. When he put the front wheel back on brake was both squishy and dragging. I came to help diagnose. Took calipers off, got firm lever but still locked. With right caliper off the left was dragging so this time I took the pads out with caliper still mounted. Didn't find anything but on assembly it was back to normal. Pads don't just slide on the pins they have to side on the caliper holding them in place. This has me thinking of buying purpose-made caliper pad grease.

Am guessing something got between pad and caliper. We also fully extended and retracted the pistons in each caliper looking for dirt or binding. Motorcycle is always garaged and has about 12,000 miles.

[CollingsBob]

Maybe a dry silicone lube on the pins?

[FJRoss]

(extrememarine) The EBC HH pads might give a little more "bite" compared to the originals but not a huge difference. It has been so long since I swapped out a set that I can't remember for sure. (I'll pay closer attention when I swap out my front pads the next time - Nissin in there now.) Both have worked well for me but EBC gets the nod because they are half the cost.

(raYzerman) Pretty sure that that the Nissin pads are still "sintered/semi-metallic" rather than "organic". I still have the Nissin pads on my 2011 and the surface definitely looks metallic. I installed a set of EBC "organic" pads on a Yamaha Venture a number of years ago and quickly swapped them for sintered pads. While "smooth", they struggled with stopping that pig quickly.

Will be interesting to see how the brakes look on the '14. Hopefully the squeaking isn't due to metal-on-metal. I clean and re-lube the pins at least annually and I have never seen enough build-up to impede function. (Never had a pin "freeze" in the caliper body either although they are sometimes pretty tight and let go with a "snap" when removing them. Still can't figure out why Yamaha wants over $30 each for them!)

(N4HHE) While I think there is a benefit for the silicone grease on the pins, I don't think would use a lubricant on the caliper bodies - pads are pretty loose in there anyway. (I thought that grease was used more for noise suppression - rattle or squeal?) Don't think the grease would have prevented your friend's problem... (Guess it depends if some foreign object got stuck in there or if a pad somehow got jammed at an odd angle.)
I agree that the linked brake is an unnecessary complication on the FJR. It (marginally) hurts front brake performance with very little advantage under normal riding conditions. If I am using rear brake for anything other than "trail-braking" in a curve or low-speed maneuvering, I almost certainly have the front brake applied as well!

(CollingsBob) I use a silicone dielectric grease on the pins. No problems so far.
So, you are all ready for the excursion to CFR?

[PhilJet09]

So:
Do you regularly clean and service calipers? Yes, almost every time I remove the wheel.
Ever have to replace caliper seals? (What mileage?) Yes - Rear-124k miles Front-64k miles
OEM or aftermarket pads? (What brand?) I’ve used both OEM and EBC
Swap pads around or change all at once? Rotate on condition, change all when needed
How many miles (kilometers) do you get out of a set of pads? Roughly 80k miles
Ever have to replace rotors? No, see note below.

Owner's manual says:

• Replace the oil seals on the inner parts of the brake or clutch master cylinders, caliper cylinders and clutch release
cylinder every two years.
• Replace the brake and clutch hoses every four years or if cracked or damaged.

I haven't done either in over 400,000 FJR kilometers on two bikes in a dozen years - have you?

I run two sets of wheels, complete with rotors and bearings, which means I’m swapping them a couple times a year (using the same brake pads). I don’t anticipate needing to buy new rotors before I get rid of my ‘09. I’m sure swapping them out like that causes more wear on both the pads and rotors, but it’s worth it and I’m still getting really good life out of them.

I changed the front caliper seals and pads at 64k miles due to a leak on the one side, figure I might as well do both sides. I kept the used pads on the non-leaking side as spares, which I’ve either lost or used since. I did the rear caliper seals at 124k miles due to the piston sticking, ended up replacing the piston as well because of corrosion.

[raYzerman]

The only grease I put near brakes is the special purple or orange hi-temp silicone grease for that application. Wouldn't think the pins would get that hot though. The grease is meant for calipers that have slide bolts inside a rubber boot. The other common thing is to grease the back of the pad where the caliper piston contacts it.... alledgedly prevents squealing from the pads vibrating. Very common on automotive applications.
Honda OE pads have thin perforated stainless plates that clip on the back of the pad... EBC's do not. Supposed to prevent squealing as well.

I have never seen any grease on a brand new bikes brake pins.... but I'll give it a shot.

The linked Hondas give you some rear brake if you use the fronts, some front brake if you use the rears.... keeps the suspension settled while braking and reduces front end dive. The FJR's linked brakes are simply a poor design in my opinion...

[FredandJeannesRacer]

Just saw this thread after I completely cleaned my calipers and pads.
There was a lot of gunk due to fork fluid seepage.
The pads are EBC sintered, and cleaned up nice.
Used a toothbrush on the calipers.
Very light coating of synthetic lube on pins.
Ran a SealMate tool around the fork tubes. Seems to have cleared up the leak.
Finally I bleed the system.
Ross is right, hard braking afterwards helps seat the pads.

[FJRoss]

Just saw this thread after I completely cleaned my calipers and pads.
There was a lot of gunk due to fork fluid seepage.
The pads are EBC sintered, and cleaned up nice.
Used a toothbrush on the calipers.
Very light coating of synthetic lube on pins.
Ran a SealMate tool around the fork tubes. Seems to have cleared up the leak.
Finally I bleed the system.
Ross is right, hard braking afterwards helps seat the pads.

I did the SealMate trick a couple or three times on each fork over the past year or so. The "fix" worked for a time but the leaks returned. Leaks were never really bad enough to leave a puddle on the garage floor but it seemed that the fork bodies and calipers were subject to slow seepage for a long time. Was awfully nice to have decent brakes and a compliant suspension after doing the forks and cleaning calipers/pads.

[Steel_Gin]

I'm putting new brakes on my '12 and never thought about rotating pads when the tire change happens.....I might start doing that. The rear pads were next to done and one front pad, left side back right, was very worn; I have 77,000 miles on the OEM pads. I am replacing everything with EBC HH pads. I am putting brake grease on the pins and the back of the pads. Would putting brake grease on the caliper where the back of the pad touch's be too much? When riding in the rain do you have to worry about that grease dripping down on the rotor making a stop an adventure?

[raYzerman]

High temp silicone brake grease.... won't melt. No grease really needed on back of the pads, but if you must, a little bit in a circle where the piston contacts them.

[Powerman]

I get the synthetic caliper grease in the little foil packs at the auto pats store.
Great for the squeal.

[Steel_Gin]

Nevermind, posted in the wrong thread.

[rbentnail]

I get the synthetic caliper grease in the little foil packs at the auto pats store.
Great for the squeal.

^^this^^, the purple stuff at the Auto Zone counter. Just a touch anywhere a pad comes in contact with anything else- spring, piston, pin, slide area of the caliper, etc. Don't goop it on, just a drop on your finger and give it a smear.