bosch 3323 filter -- no longer suitable

[torch]

Years ago I did some in-depth testing of various oil filters, comparing flow rates, pressures, filtration, capacity, etc. I found that the Bosch 3323 outperformed the Yamaha filter and have been using it ever since.

I recently restocked from my local Bosch dealer and discovered that they no longer fit the FJR. Instead of a concavity, the threaded portion now sits flat so the sealing ring barely contacts the engine casting (same problem as several others tested, eg: WIX 51356)

Trying to find a locally available solution with little success. Parts guys keep cross-referencing to the FRAM PH7317, which I don't want because testing showed was something like 40% more restrictive than the original Yamaha. Mother Yamaha itself has been playing silly buggers with the FJR oil filter over the years, changing at least the length back and forth a few times. God knows what that's done to the filtration capacity, efficiency and more importantly, flow rate.

So, what are people using these days? Anyone tried the Hiflowfiltro yet? If so, are they up to their marketing hype?

[bungie4]

Trying to find a locally available solution with little success. Parts guys keep cross-referencing to the FRAM PH7317, which I don't want because testing showed was something like 40% more restrictive than the original Yamaha. Mother Yamaha itself has been playing silly buggers with the FJR oil filter over the years, changing at least the length back and forth a few times. God knows what that's done to the filtration capacity, efficiency and more importantly, flow rate.

I bought a new Yamaha filter just last week. Another new part number. This one looks even shorter still.

[SLK50]

I gave up trying to find Bosch filters in my area.
Went back to Puroltor ( Boss ).

[SLK50]

deleted duplicate post

[rbentnail]

I discovered the same thing with Bosch filters way back when there was a huge hulabaloo about it. I've used HiFloFiltro HF148 a couple of times since then, they're fine. And just the other day I posted somewhere about Mobil1 M1-110A still being concave. There's always the Union Bolt Mod, then it doesn't matter what you buy, everything off the shelf will fit and not leak.

I'm not so concerned about pressure and flow and all that other tecknogeeky stuff you seem to be, I just use what's on sale at the time. I have only 111,8xx miles on mine with 33 oil changes so I imagine this may well be one of those things somebody somewhere is overthinking. JS.

[griff]

I recently restocked from my local Bosch dealer and discovered that they no longer fit the FJR. Instead of a concavity, the threaded portion now sits flat so the sealing ring barely contacts the engine casting (same problem as several others tested, eg: WIX 51356)

As rbentnail said, I got Norm Kern's union bolt mod a couple years ago, so the 3323 fits fine with it's outy profile.

[Harald]

Count me in the Norm Kern Union bolt suporter camp.
I'm still using the Bosch 3323 filters because they're a good filter and are nice looking because the label is easily removed and they're colored black to boot. BTW, I buy mine a dozen at a time from rockauto.com for about $5 each delivered.

[raYzerman]

There was also an unsubstantiated by me rumor/recall on Purolators who make the Bosch. Alledgedly outies recalled and replaced with innies, or perhaps letting the outies run out and new stock would be innies...... yep the Norm Kern union bolt mod works, make your own by removing yours and shaving 0.06" off the hex in a lathe.....
Don't know about flow test data, but there is my cutaway thread.... see post 1, has pics of the union bolt too, hope the photobucket links will work if YOUR account works. But I will replace those links soon too.

[HotRodZilla]

Another NormKern Union Bolt user here. I still have a supply of the Mobile-1 filters. I got the machined union bolt, so I don't have to worry about it. On that note, why would anyone think the Yamaha filters would not be sufficient for the motor? People love to solve problems that are not really problems.

[torch]

On that note, why would anyone think the Yamaha filters would not be sufficient for the motor? People love to solve problems that are not really problems.

At the time, approximately 7% of all FJRs turned into "tickers" -- extreme exhaust valve guide wear usually involving #2 cylinder. Mother Yamaha themselves didn't know what was causing it. They tried new valve materials, then new guide material. Eventually they redesigned the valve seals. Throughout this ordeal (and the constant fear that one's pride and joy might junk itself was an ordeal) many of us believed there was an inherent lubrication flaw at the heart of the problem, possibly coupled with a cooling issue. Yamaha was publicly denying the problem existed on one hand while quietly having the destroyed heads returned to the factory for study. The only thing that was clear was that Yamaha's engineers had no idea what was causing the tickers or how to cure the problem.

FJR oil pressure fluctuates wildly with RPM. I don't have the exact numbers at the forefront of memory any more, but IIRC the idle pressure is somewhere around 10psi and over 70psi at idle. Bypass valve pressure of the filter is around 14psi, so in theory, a plugged oil filter could prevent all lubrication of the engine at idle. Similarly, a restrictive filter -- either plugged with debris or just poor design -- could easily bypass and allow unfiltered oil to circulate at speed. Yamaha's oil filter of the day used an unusual filtration media design more typical of furnace oil filters than automotive engine oil filters. So I believed, as did many others, that it was possible the Yamaha oil filter was a factor in the ticker phenomenon.

Various people suggested alternatives. Some cut them apart to analyze them. I built a test rig consisting of a pump, reservoir, gauges and calibrated restriction to measure and compare actual flow rates and pressures of a variety of candidates. Some I could not get locally, they were mailed to me by others. Of the brands I could get locally, the Bosch 3323 seemed to be the best option: it was the least restrictive while still providing acceptably fine filtration; it had no problem handling the extremes of pressure; was of robust internal construction and featured an anti-drainback valve.

Is it really better than Yamaha's offerings? Who knows? I have put ~280,000kms on mine using the Bosch, so I can say with some confidence that the Bosch was not a bad choice. In the meantime, Yamaha has changed the design so often it appears the only driving force behind their revisions is finding a cheaper supplier that will paint "Yamaha" on the side of the can. There are some basic laws of physics at play here, and a shorter filter is either more restrictive, or has less capacity, or both, than a longer filter. I can't really see a scenario where Yamaha's filter revisions were driven by engineering considerations.

It is fine to say the answer is simply to shave 60 thou off the union bolt, and I may actually do that. But If Bosch changed the design in such a fundamental way, are the all-important flow and capacity characteristics left unchanged? What if the 3323 is now equivalent to the highly restrictive PH7317?

Thanks to all for your input. I'll have to try and hunt down Ray's cut away thread.

[John d]

I have almost always used the Bosch 3323 with perhaps 4 to 5 of the newer design with the Norm Kern union bolt. No boom yet. 93,000 miles and counting.

[HotRodZilla]

Good reply Torch. Just one question: Has anyone ever reported a roasted FJR engine due to lack of oil flow? To my knowledge, not one. There is no way any of these filter manufacturers are going to build and sell filters that are going to pop any of the vehicle engines on which they'll fit. The Fram BS is exactly that. Fram is not building filters that grenade engines.

As far as tickers are concerned, modifying the valve guide seals fixed the issue in the affected bikes. Again, nothing to do with the filters, and no conspiracy by Yamaha to do some secret investigation. ANY company that has engines freaking out will want as many as they can get, back, in order to properly investigate the issue and keep from repeating it. IF Yamaha had changed the filter design in the midst of the ticker issue, there would possibly be some merit to that claim, but there is neither. Yamaha uses the same filter from FJRs in multiple models. Bad filters would have affected them all.

Whatever. You like taking stuff apart, cool. Have fun!

[torch]

Please note that I prefaced my comments with the phrase "at the time". This was before Yamaha redesigned the valve seals. It was obvious that something was going on and that it probably involved lubrication.

As for secrecy, Yamaha was actively denying that there was a "ticker" issue and denying warranty claims when bikes developed the problem. When evidence surfaced from Australia that the problem was well known, they tried to claim it only affected 2001 & 2002 models -- North American models were supposedly new for 2003.

Bear in mind that -- at the time -- internet discussion groups were still a relatively new phenomenon. If corporations thought of the internet at all, they just saw it as another venue for advertising, they had no idea that their customers could share info and collate data worldwide. They didn't comprehend that we could compare build dates and serial numbers and prove that the first run of NA 2003 models were actually built before many Aussie and EU 2002 bikes.

To be fair, I think it entirely possible that Yamaha USA and Yamaha Canada were unaware the facts, at least at the beginning. They may have been repeating what they had been told by Mother Yamaha.

Anyway, all ancient history. Every corporation in the world knows that misdeeds can and will "go viral" now.

[huron52]

HIFLO filter here …. HF148 I have used it almost from day 1 plus I use Motul 4T 5100 10W40 on my low mileage FJR. No loss of oil between changes.

[Full House]

After comparing dimensions, stats., etc. in the NAPA filter spec. catalog. I picked the 7356 NAPA which is a version of the 1356 ( Wix 51356). Spins on and seals with stock bolt , readily available, reasonable cost and is black! Works fine.

[tominca]

I have the Bosch 3323 filter on the bike now with the Norm Kern union bolt. I am about to source a new filter, and asked Rayzermann about this filter. The price on Amazon is $5.99 shipped (Prime) per unit. The RockAuto price is $7.23 shipped each, and I'm not buying a dozen. As far as I'm concerned, it's a good filter, at at a good price-point.

[Harald]

The price on Amazon is $5.99 shipped (Prime) per unit. The RockAuto price is $7.23 shipped each, and I'm not buying a dozen.

I sure wouldn't buy them at rockauto for $7.23 each either. Lucky for me, I have 3 vehicles that use the same filter so that drops the cost to $4.54 each delivered when you buy 10.

I'm still amazed how Amazon can make money selling some stuff so cheap. Probably because they seriously squeeze their suppliers.

[John d]

Here is a picture of both. The old design filter is on the left and the new design filter is on the right. Here you can see the concave design verses problematic new convex design.

[wheatonFJR]

Here is a picture of both. The old design filter is on the left and the new design filter is on the right. Here you can see the concave design verses problematic new convex design.

I use the 3323s...but some guy from Ohio sent me a machined oil bolt that makes concave/convex a non-issue these days.

[John d]

Here is a picture of both. The old design filter is on the left and the new design filter is on the right. Here you can see the concave design verses problematic new convex design.

I use the 3323s...but some guy from Ohio sent me a machined oil bolt that makes concave/convex a non-issue these days.

Yes, I have Norm Kerns modified union bolt as well. I just added the picture to help show the problem to those that might not understand the issue.