Issues with Glendas/Ericas

[FJRoss]

Post in FJR Specific, Tech, Gadgets or Farkles - maybe General Motorcycle?
Another issue to chase to go along with the loping idle. (Still working on that)
(I assume it couldn't be due to some sort of electrical anomaly causing the following issues?)

2011 Yamaha FJR- purchased 6 weeks ago
Fork-mounted Glendas (amber lens). Always on but with a dimmer pot usually set to 30% or so. Also set to go to full brightness with the horn.
Mirror-mounted Ericas. Hard switched on/off, with a dimmer and set to go to full bright with high beam. Usually on but at minimum brightness.

Usually it works as it should but there are some anomalies that bother me – pretty sure there is a single root problem and pretty sure it is an issue with wiring/relays rather than with the lights themselves.

• I was noticing a couple of days ago (while following another vehicle with a polished bumper), that the Glendas were mostly at their dimmed position but would occasionally and randomly flash to bright for a fraction of a second. Didn’t seem to be a function of anything – was driving slowly in traffic. Wasn’t apparently related to RPM or hitting bumps – would do it at idle waiting for lights to change.

• On other occasions I have noticed that when I hit the horn, I sometimes get a brief flash from the Ericas even though I didn’t THINK they were supposed to be hooked to the horn circuit. (can tell by the fact that traffic signs light up due to reflection, even in daylight). This does not happen all of the time and sometimes it is longer than a brief flash although I don't think they ever STAY on like the Glendas while horn button is pressed. This may be a problem if using the horn at night – runs the risk of blinding or startling an on-coming driver.

Something is apparently wrong and since I don’t believe in coincidences, I am guessing that there is a single common fault. Intuition tells me that there is maybe some sort of grounding issue but it might be a bad relay or a simple bad connection somewhere.

Note: Temperature was warm and the air was dry when these things were noticed.

The previous owner did the setup and I thought everything was OK. His work did not appear sloppy. I am thinking that the best way to solve it is to start over with the wiring and bring everything back to two separate switched circuits on an FZ-1 Fuzeblock.

I don’t know it could possibly be a factor but the bike is set up with a trailer hitch and a Kuryakyn 7672 trailer harness/relay system. I don't know whether an issue with this device could cause a problem or not. I would not expect so unless it was messing up the whole ground plane somehow but this would affect far more than the Clearwaters! (trailer's running, signal and brake lights work as they should)

Any suggestions??

[Redfish]

I would think that the one thing in common with everything is the Ground. That would be a place to start. I would be separating the grounds completely if possible.

[NTXFJR]

Are the lights wired up to the factory harness?

[FJRoss]

Are the lights wired up to the factory harness?

Not 100% certain. The Ericas definitely get their "go to bright" signal from the high beam circuit and the Glendas get their "go to bright" from the horn. I think the power source to run the lights goes back to the battery but I haven't really gotten into it. I would have to assume that the circuit for the Ericas must be separate - together they draw 10 amps on full power. I was aware of the Erica flash with horn last weekend but only noticed the odd Glenda behavior yesterday on the way home from work.

[FJRoss]

I would think that the one thing in common with everything is the Ground. That would be a place to start. I would be separating the grounds completely if possible.

I could try separating that out - as I mentioned, intuition tells me that it is likely due to a grounding problem (or maybe a bad relay). I would love to KNOW what the problem is and do a temporary fix right away with plans to rip it all out and start from scratch when I have a couple of days to work on it.

[FJRoss]

Just checked a couple of things.
Worse at low idle than with engine revving a bit. (Voltage related?)
After hitting the kill switch but with ignition on, the Glendas go to bright with any additional electrical load - windshield motor or even off and on with signal lights.
Ignition on but engine not running, I get a click and the Glendas going to bright with the horn button but the horn doesn't sound! These are Piaa horns. Now I'm really confused.

And I got a sort of an answer from Clearwater Tech Support. I just have to figure out what he means. Is there a grounding fault on the bike? And I'm not sure what he means when he says I may have to add a relay...

"We do see this problem on an FJR bike. This is due to a bad ground on the bike itself. To be sure if this is the case you will need to look for the headlight relay on your bike, I think it is on the left side for the 2011 model.

If the previous owners did the install correctly, there should a White wire coming from our main harness connected to the headlight relay. This location is your high beam switch hot, you want to remove that White wire and observe the bike to see if you still have random flashing while riding.

If you don't see any more flashing after removing the White wire then you have a bad ground which caused the spike, you will need to add a relay in between our White wire and the factory headlight relay."

[extrememarine]

I've helped work on used bikes (FJR's) that previous owner's had done wiring. Some very good, some not so much. My opinion, if the installer is unknown, you have to start from scratch. Ground seems logical as mentioned above, and the bike is known to have ground issues. Does it have the recall or other ground modifications (Brodie Harness) installed? Electrical gremlins can be extremely frustrating to resolve - good luck!

[ionbeam]

I've helped work on used bikes (FJR's) that previous owner's had done wiring...My opinion, if the installer is unknown, you have to start from scratch...

What type of power controller(s) are used for controlling the lights? This can be an important clue to the problems.

I have to agree with extreme' here. You need to at least trace down all the wire runs and closely examine the connections in any case. What you need to focus on are a couple of things, what FJR system wires have been tapped and the quality of the connections. In the best case, all the grounds should be traceable to a wire that goes directly to the battery.

The problems you describe can't be caused by a faulty relay. The relay may not work correctly, but the root cause would be wiring problems to/from the relay and not the relay itself. As tech support mentioned, you may have to add relays. The amount of power that the lights are capable of consuming shouldn't be taken off of any FJR harness, power should be supplied through a relay's contacts; the relay coil can be safely switched using the FJR's wiring harness.

Hope the fishing goes quick and satisfying.

[FJRoss]

I've helped work on used bikes (FJR's) that previous owner's had done wiring. Some very good, some not so much. My opinion, if the installer is unknown, you have to start from scratch. Ground seems logical as mentioned above, and the bike is known to have ground issues. Does it have the recall or other ground modifications (Brodie Harness) installed? Electrical gremlins can be extremely frustrating to resolve - good luck!

Thanks
There are no recalls for the (S4) grounding issues on the later Gen II bikes - not to say that there could not be an issue, just that it isn't specifically recognized by Yamaha. Not the classical symptoms of "spider" faults anyway so if a ground problem, it is more likely associated with the aux lighting system. Other than the Kuryakyn trailer wiring setup, there is nothing else in the way of electrical oddities. I already came to the conclusion that I would like to start again from scratch and wiring everything to a Fuzeblock FZ-1 rather than to the battery. Looking for some means to do a temporary fix and revisit when I have more time.

I know enough about electrical systems to be dangerous. While I understand what's going on, I am not expert enough to be confident in troubleshooting and solving the issue completely on my own - not to mention doing a very clean new installation.

Work in progress...

[FJRoss]

I've helped work on used bikes (FJR's) that previous owner's had done wiring...My opinion, if the installer is unknown, you have to start from scratch...

What type of power controller(s) are used for controlling the lights? This can be an important clue to the problems.

I have to agree with extreme' here. You need to at least trace down all the wire runs and closely examine the connections in any case. What you need to focus on are a couple of things, what FJR system wires have been tapped and the quality of the connections. In the best case, all the grounds should be traceable to a wire that goes directly to the battery.

The problems you describe can't be caused by a faulty relay. The relay may not work correctly, but the root cause would be wiring problems to/from the relay and not the relay itself. As tech support mentioned, you may have to add relays. The amount of power that the lights are capable of consuming shouldn't be taken off of any FJR harness, power should be supplied through a relay's contacts; the relay coil can be safely switched using the FJR's wiring harness.

Hope the fishing goes quick and satisfying.

Thanks Alan

As far as I know, the system is using the Clearwater PWM setup for dimming. I have sent an email to the original owner to find out whether he did the install according to Clearwater's instructions, whether he had someone else do the wiring and whether any modifications were made along the way. This one gets a bit more complicated because of the Glendas set to go to full power with the horn and the Ericas (maybe Glendas too) going to full power with high beam. The Ericas have an on/off switch but the Glendas are always on. Both have dimmers. If they are both hooked to the same headlight relay, maybe they are interfering with each other??

As per the comment from the Clearwater tech, I'm not sure if he is referring to an observation in general with FJRs or if he is suggesting a specific problem with mine?

[bungie4]

LED's are highly directional. I've had ppl tell me that my LED's are flickering. Nope. just bouncing on the mounts.

[FJRoss]

LED's are highly directional. I've had ppl tell me that my LED's are flickering. Nope. just bouncing on the mounts.

No question, the Glendas are flickering somewhat randomly going in terms of brightness from the set ~30% to the same full bright that you get with the controller set on high or hitting the horn. Can be observed with the bike stationary.

The Ericas momentary "flash" with the horn has been absolutely verified as well - in the garage while looking at the light.

[BikerGeek]

I got no suggestions here for ya other than to be careful - you don't wanna let the smoke out.

[wheatonFJR]

I got no suggestions here for ya other than to be careful - you don't wanna let the smoke out.

...nor let furniture attack you.

[Brodie]

Silly question…

Did you wash the bike just before the flickering became noticeable?

My dimmer switch is mounted vertically through the painted dash plastic just below the left handlebar grip. When I wash my bike, or when it rains, the pot gets wet and both Glendas and Kristas will flash. It usually takes an afternoon of riding, or sitting overnight before it dries out sufficiently to restore proper function. When that happens I simply turn off the Kristas and turn the dimmer up to full intensity for the Glendas. Not the best workaround, but I’m looking to put a seal to place between the knob and the plastic dash panel.

Good luck.

Brodie

[FJRoss]

No, bike not freshly washed and haven't been riding in the rain for a week or more.

I am going to have to take this all apart and see how it was wired in the first place. I have TWO dimmers on this - separate for Glendas and Ericas. Plus a switch for the Ericas. I can run the amber lens Glendas at 30% or so and the Ericas at minimum. This is great for daytime. Ericas go to full with high beam as do the Glendas. Glendas also go to full with horn. Lots of connections and relays that could be the root cause.

I was looking at the Clearwater instructions and realize that their relay box does not accommodate two dimmers so I am thinking there must be two relay boxes (or non-Clearwater controls). Haven't opened it up yet. I think the pots and switch are Clearwater...

The bracket for the controls is neat - held by the screws that hold the covers on the handlebar caps.

[0face]

It’s the dimmer. I’ve had the same issue. Call Clearwater they’ll send you a new dimmer. You have the older version you need the heavy duty one.

[FJRoss]

Interesting. Does the new dimmer look different? Not sure when the previous owner installed these but a dimmer swap would be a nice easy solution. Funny that the guy I exchanged emails with at Clearwater didn't mention that there was an upgraded control.

What lights are you using? The Glendas are pretty low power but the Ericas are 60W each.

Thanks, I'll contact them at the first of the week and see what they say. Any idea what they cost?

[0face]

Darla’s and Kristas. They know about the issue. Just call them they should replace them. They’re pretty good about taking care of people.

Mine would flicker and stay bright or be off. The dimmer switch fixed it.

You can unplug the dimmers and the lights should just be bright.