FJRiders.com

Hppants wrote: ↑Sat Sep 05, 2020 12:03 pm

raYzerman wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 4:10 pm

Hppants wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:40 pm For safe keeping, in 4500 miles, I burned 350 cc of oil.

We will see what happens with the ring free.

Just for the record, I'm wondering what exactly was your method of determining what the oil level was and is, i.e., were those methods exactly the same? Did you time it exactly? I'm trying to get at how you determined the burned oil was 350cc since there are several variables involved in a sight glass check.

Well, you asked....

First, as an old lab tech (wet chemistry), I freely acknowledge the possibility of error in my measurements. That said, with my line of sight "level", my last oil change was filled as it always is, with the bottom of the meniscus in the sight glass even with the midpoint of the "full dot".

4500 miles later, with my "graduated fill cup funnel", with measurements in 10 cc increments, I refilled to the same level. And then I "overfilled" just slightly (meniscus to the top of the dot) to determine a good guess for my error of measurement, which I believe to be about 10 cc.

Therefore, I burned 350cc (+ or - 10 cc) in 4500 miles.

I've got a 750-ish mile ride planned next weekend. Afterwards, I'll drain and change the oil and reset the clock. If it doesn't hurt anything, I'll add the ring free for 5-10 tanks and see what happens.

Regarding any 'tear down", in the extremely unlikely event that my motor blows up, that is where it will stay. I'll part out what I can, and buy another one. I'm capable of tearing the motor down, but likely not able to put it back together. Regardless, I'd rather ride another one....

Lots of sources of error in the measurement but I won't necessarily dispute your estimate of the amount of oil consumed.
Assume measurement taken on the centerstand with the bike in the same relative position on a level surface.
Assume the same amount of settling time was allowed - especially with the top-off refill. It can take a little while for that new oil to trickle down all the way.
Everything at the same temperature? Volumetric coefficient of expansion for motor oil is 0.0004 per degree F so for 50 °F and 4 litres of oil, this would be 80 cc. This does not account for volumetric changes in the crankcase as a function of temperature - this could be a larger factor if the measurement isn't done under isothermal conditions.

Have you had the oil analyzed? Consumption could be GREATER than the 350 cc and some of the volume is taken up by fuel in the oil - hopefully not although possible. Some engines appear to "make" oil.

Do the Ring-Free treatment and monitor the situation but I would say you are a LONG way from needing to do anything to the engine. Assuming performance is not affected and there isn't blue smoke out the exhaust, I doubt I would do anything for consumption of less than a litre of oil between changes.

Note: The type of oil (conventional vs synthetic) and the viscosity could be factors as well. Conventional oils and lower viscosity oils may have a higher proportion of volatile components and these may be lost due to evaporation. I suppose they still end out in the exhaust but not because of leaking past rings and seals. You might try a different oil and see how consumption compares.

(45 years as an analytical chemist)

What sort of riding was done for most of this 4500 miles? Hi revs and aggressive engine braking will greatly increase consumption.

IMHO This seems kinda like picking fly shit out of pepper. I read many years ago that if a v-8 burned 1 drop per power stroke it would go thru a quart in 2 miles so a few cc's in a few thousand mile isn't squat.
My first 03 was a ticker and after the head was rebuilt it would use a little oil running FJR nominal speeds here in the west but I didn't care cause I knew the oil was lubing the rings and guides. When I sold it with 140k it still ran like new and the current owner has added another 40k to the count.
Ride more and buy oil cause the oil company's need the revenue

Definitely agree, Ray. FWIW - my other two FJRs didn’t burn a drop between oil changes. Immeasurable amount.

Back to the fly shit - Ross - Same oil for 66k (Yamalube 10w40), same measurement, on center stand, first thing next morning. Again, there is some error, but I’ve got it as controlled as reasonably possible.

Hppants wrote: ↑Sat Sep 05, 2020 12:03 pm

raYzerman wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 4:10 pm

Hppants wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:40 pm For safe keeping, in 4500 miles, I burned 350 cc of oil.

We will see what happens with the ring free.

Just for the record, I'm wondering what exactly was your method of determining what the oil level was and is, i.e., were those methods exactly the same? Did you time it exactly? I'm trying to get at how you determined the burned oil was 350cc since there are several variables involved in a sight glass check.

Well, you asked....

First, as an old lab tech (wet chemistry), I freely acknowledge the possibility of error in my measurements. That said, with my line of sight "level", my last oil change was filled as it always is, with the bottom of the meniscus in the sight glass even with the midpoint of the "full dot".

4500 miles later, with my "graduated fill cup funnel", with measurements in 10 cc increments, I refilled to the same level. And then I "overfilled" just slightly (meniscus to the top of the dot) to determine a good guess for my error of measurement, which I believe to be about 10 cc.

Therefore, I burned 350cc (+ or - 10 cc) in 4500 miles.

I've got a 750-ish mile ride planned next weekend. Afterwards, I'll drain and change the oil and reset the clock. If it doesn't hurt anything, I'll add the ring free for 5-10 tanks and see what happens.

Regarding any 'tear down", in the extremely unlikely event that my motor blows up, that is where it will stay. I'll part out what I can, and buy another one. I'm capable of tearing the motor down, but likely not able to put it back together. Regardless, I'd rather ride another one....

I with you on the tear down thing. I can DEFINITELY take it all apart. Putting it back together and getting it to work correctly is the bitch. When I'm done, I never understand why the manufacturer included all the extra parts I have laying around. Such a waste of money and extra weight. Sheesh!

Well, to dispel the fly shit... being anal is the only way to know oil level. However, a cupful in 4500 miles is nothing to worry about. I would never tear down an FJR engine unless I had to, even then, maybe for valve work only. Beyond that is not worth it. Start adding up costs of bearings, rings, valves, etc. and you'll find it better to spend a g-note or so on a good used low miler engine.
What I do is at oil change time is ensure my oil level (and other fluids) are at max. Burning a little will not take it to the add mark between oil changes on an FJR... unless it's smoking blue stuff, then further investigation required.
I have a nice 2006 engine here in a basket..... factory-trained idjit should have never torn it down... engine cases alone (gets you new cylinder bores) should scare one off. I'll put it together and donate it to a local school.

And now a comment from Capt. Obvious:

It makes a difference if you check the oil on LEVEL ground (in both directions).

Left on a fresh oil change and rode 525 miles up to Jasper Arkansas. Hard to find anywhere level to check the oil, but I gave it a shot. Oil level is half-way between full and add - crap, this is getting bad. Topped it off with about 2 ounces and went riding. Found a level location at a gas station and put it on the center stand. Waited the obligatory 2-3 minutes for the oil to settle and .... overfilled? Crap again - oh well, f- it. I'll ride it a little over filled.

Stayed that way for 1700 more miles, and a LOT of those miles hard in the twisties (bad Pants). Got home and its still overfilled.

So - I've gone from "sell the bitch as soon as I get home" to "meh... it's not that bad".

Yamaha FJR1300 - a bike even a dumb ass can own and not kill.

(if Mama Yammie is reading this - all rights reserved!!)

Hell, its MAKING oil.
Maybe you should tap off the excess and start selling it.

Hppants wrote: ↑Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:21 pm And now a comment from Capt. Obvious:

It makes a difference if you check the oil on LEVEL ground (in both directions).

Left on a fresh oil change and rode 525 miles up to Jasper Arkansas. Hard to find anywhere level to check the oil, but I gave it a shot. Oil level is half-way between full and add - crap, this is getting bad. Topped it off with about 2 ounces and went riding. Found a level location at a gas station and put it on the center stand. Waited the obligatory 2-3 minutes for the oil to settle and .... overfilled? Crap again - oh well, f- it. I'll ride it a little over filled.

Stayed that way for 1700 more miles, and a LOT of those miles hard in the twisties (bad Pants). Got home and its still overfilled.

So - I've gone from "sell the bitch as soon as I get home" to "meh... it's not that bad".

Yamaha FJR1300 - a bike even a dumb ass can own and not kill.

(if Mama Yammie is reading this - all rights reserved!!)

Do yourself and your bike a favor. Stop carrying around a container of oil. Ride with a friend and every time you lean down to look at the oil level sight glass, have him kick you in the ding-ding. This is a bad OCD habit you created and need to break!

How many other vehicles do you own? I'll assume 2, one for you and one for your wife. Do you check the oil level every time you stop for gas? I'm betting not. Unless you see oil on the ground or oil blowing out your pipes in the form of blue smoke, you're fine.

How many times have I checked the oil in my daughters 2002 Mercury in the almost 3 years we've owned it? Zero. My truck? Zero. My wife's SUV? Zero. Hell, my turbo driven cop car? Zero. How many times do I check my FJR's oil level between changes? Zero! I have never blown up a vehicle motor for lack of oil. You are creating a problem that is not a problem.

I'm sure RFH could help you with the kicking thing. Hell, he might even have an electric dog collar that would work just as well. You have a bad habit that you need to break! Sorry man!!

That is the basic rule for wing owners. Drain oil, change filter, pour in 1 gallon, check for leaks and repeat in 8k miles. I've treated 5 FJR's the same way.

I get it - but in my case, over the past 10-15K miles, my FJR has actually started consuming a little oil. Like you, I never (NEVER) checked the oil between changes. Last year, I pull out of the driveway to go to SFO, and 2 miles down the street, the oil light comes on! At that time, it was about 4K since the oil change.

So I started getting OCD about it (admittedly), and 3 pages and 1 year later on this thread, here we are.

It doesn't seem to be burning much, so I'll go back to ride more, stress less I suppose.

I always check the oil level in my car -- just before I take it to the track. Since 1985 I have found a need to add oil zero times. Before a long motorcycle trip I check my oil level and I have found a need to add oil zero times. It is good to check anyway. (The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results.)

My 2nd 2004 burned oil, especially after a day in the upper rpm ranges. I have my suspicions why, but I know the previous owner rode the bike in the winter in northern Indiana on heavily salted roads that may or may not have been wet and briny. The bike periodically showed up slightly low after high rpm runs, so I didn't worry about too much. However, I was in the middle of a big trip to Cali in 2011 when I peeked at the glass before heading out from Bodega Bay to points north with the gang, I was close to a quart low. I bummed some oil from Beemerdons before he headed back to AZ, as it was Sunday and nothing was open.

Thanks Bigfella!

wheatonFJR wrote: ↑Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:11 pm My 2nd 2004 burned oil, especially after a day in the upper rpm ranges. I have my suspicions why, but I know the previous owner rode the bike in the winter in northern Indiana on heavily salted roads that may or may not have been wet and briny. The bike periodically showed up slightly low after high rpm runs, so I didn't worry about too much. However, I was in the middle of a big trip to Cali in 2011 when I peeked at the glass before heading out from Bodega Bay to points north with the gang, I was close to a quart low. I bummed some oil from Beemerdons before he headed back to AZ, as it was Sunday and nothing was open.

Thanks Bigfella!

On that same trip your rear tire was more than a quart low and I had to tell you about it when we left the diner after lunch

Hppants wrote: ↑Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:47 pm I get it - but in my case, over the past 10-15K miles, my FJR has actually started consuming a little oil. Like you, I never (NEVER) checked the oil between changes. Last year, I pull out of the driveway to go to SFO, and 2 miles down the street, the oil light comes on! At that time, it was about 4K since the oil change.

So I started getting OCD about it (admittedly), and 3 pages and 1 year later on this thread, here we are.

It doesn't seem to be burning much, so I'll go back to ride more, stress less I suppose.

Keep it off the REDLINE a little and it should be fine. LOL And before you say you never do that, need I remind you of the time we were in Utah blasting in front of a few semi trucks. You said you felt the power drop and looked down, 3rd gear still at FJR nominal. I was right on your tail, Damn I miss that trip out west.

What a great memory.

fjray wrote: ↑Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:24 pm

wheatonFJR wrote: ↑Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:11 pm My 2nd 2004 burned oil, especially after a day in the upper rpm ranges. I have my suspicions why, but I know the previous owner rode the bike in the winter in northern Indiana on heavily salted roads that may or may not have been wet and briny. The bike periodically showed up slightly low after high rpm runs, so I didn't worry about too much. However, I was in the middle of a big trip to Cali in 2011 when I peeked at the glass before heading out from Bodega Bay to points north with the gang, I was close to a quart low. I bummed some oil from Beemerdons before he headed back to AZ, as it was Sunday and nothing was open.

Thanks Bigfella!

On that same trip your rear tire was more than a quart low and I had to tell you about it when we left the diner after lunch

Yeah, that was the first time I ever plugged a tire. I believe I had good practice at it that day. The double plug worked CA 36 where I "tipped your bike over", the Nevada Loneliest Hwy nominal speeds, the Rockies and beautiful I80 on the way home 1500 miles later.

Thanks BigFella!

There's only one way to check oil. Every time in the same spot AT YOUR PLACE. Same conditions, use a stopwatch if yer anal. Be consistent and you'll get consistent results instead of all this meaningless speculation....
BTW you'd have to overfill A LOT to be a problem.

raYzerman wrote: ↑Wed Oct 28, 2020 5:09 pm There's only one way to check oil. Every time in the same spot AT YOUR PLACE. Same conditions, use a stopwatch if yer anal. Be consistent and you'll get consistent results instead of all this meaningless speculation....
BTW you'd have to overfill A LOT to be a problem.

With as low as the oil pan is, is it even possible to overfill an FJR enough for the crank to froth the oil? It seems that stuff is pretty high and oil would come pouring out of the fill spout before it reached the terminal height.

What we do know is the oil can be over the top of the sight glass when filled to the max line and sits overnight so all the oil drains down. What we don't specifically know is the crankshaft position relative to the top of the sight glass is. This to be determined one day when I reassemble the project bike engine.... it's in a basket right now. I suspect you can go 4.5 quarts without much of an issue. Fretting over a coupla ounces, just go ride.
When you start the bike, immediately you see the level drop in the sight glass, meaning the oil pump has circulated a bunch of it right away. The worst that could happen is the crank touched the oil until you started it, then not much to worry about a few seconds later. But anyway, one day when I get to it, we'll know... it's on my winter list.....

Well I got nothing new to add to this post. Everybody has provided all the good ideas and pig piling is just clutter.

I got a kick out of Pants saying "So - I've gone from "sell the bitch as soon as I get home" to "meh... it's not that bad"."

In 2021 I hope to find a lightly use A model, buy a Penske and a GP Suspension fork upgrade and sell the '17 ES. Fixing the ES to suit my demands is about as easy as rebuilding a FJR engine. JSNS. Obviously I am in the sell the bitch corner.

^^^^ Here to "help" Fontanaman! You say the word and we'll find a lightly used '19A toot-sweet!

~G