Has Yamaha Gone Too Far with Electronic Suspension?

BuddhaBiker · Post by **BuddhaBiker** » Tue Dec 13, 2016 9:45 pm

Yes, I agree. Everyone's priorities are different...especially when we're trying to keep riding by accommodating our aging bodies. I do 300-400 mile day trips every week and find CC absolutely essential (for me). Due to my wrist issues, I use it every few minutes for a few secs at a time just to keep the ache and numbness down, even when I'm not on the super slab.

However Twigg, I AM very interested if you would please share any specifics you have on specific aftermarket CC systems for the Japanese bikes I mentioned. I didn't know this was an option. I've tried all sorts of throttle locks, including the Brakeaway, but all pale in comparison to an electronic CC.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

Twigg · Post by **Twigg** » Tue Dec 13, 2016 11:56 pm

Everything you need is here:

http://www.rostra.com/universal-afterma ... rostra.php

That has been fitted to my '05 for the last 30 000 miles. It has performed flawlessly

BuddhaBiker · Post by **BuddhaBiker** » Wed Dec 14, 2016 12:14 am

Very interesting! Thank you

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

Hppants · Post by **Hppants** » Wed Dec 14, 2016 9:50 am

Buddhebiker - if you are willing to consider aftermarket c/c, you should put the Versys 1000LT on you bike shopping list. IMO, that is a bike that offers a lot of sport touring features at 150 pounds lighter, along with a whole lot of value for the price.

Back more on topic, I do have a couple of other "wish it was different" issues for the Gen III. None of these would (or did) prevent me from buying the bike, but after a few miles on the machine, I could see the benefit:

1. Why must we program the grip heaters to only 3 levels? Seems if they were going to dedicate a whole "LCD screen" to the grip heater setting, why couldn't they just program the software to allow us to toggle the full 1-9 range on the fly?

2. How much more would it cost to have self-canceling turn signals?

3, I'm sorry, but Yamaha's idea of linked brakes is bass ackwards. Anyone that has ridden more than 100 miles knows that the front brake stops 95% of the bike. Why couldn't they make the REAR caliper have two reservoirs, and then when you squeeze FRONT brake, you also get 1 piston on the REAR caliper? Or better yet, why not offer both scenarios on the bike?

4. The glove box always has been too small and it always could have been MUCH bigger without altering the fairing at all.

5. I think having the 12 accessory plug in the glove box is convenient, but I'd like the option to make it constant on v/s ONLY switched. For campers, it would be cool to be able to charge the phone overnight or look at the GPS from the campground without having to turn the key on.

6. It boggles my mind that Yamaha hasn't made the front stay structural piece stronger - REALLY stronger. It is sooooo easy to add a couple of gussets to each mirror tab, making it 5 times stronger than it currently is, and thus making it much more "tip over proof".

7. I wish Yamaha would offer aftermarket accessory lights and thereby have the wiring harness pre-wired for this. No matter what anyone does or says, NO one can make aftermarket wiring as durable as the factory. Sooner or later, we all have to make an accessory wiring repair.

8. How much more would an extra horn - with more than 78 DB cost? Seriously, the factory horn is a joke.

9. The under seat area could have been re-worked to provide a TON more storage for the rider at ZERO additional cost. Again, for the camping tourer, every liter of dry storage is CRITICAL.

10. Why doesn't the A model come with the rear fender flap that goes in front of the tire? Why do I have to buy this $6.00 part? That thing does a tremendous job of keeping pebbles, tar, etc. off my rim and inner fender. Obviously, they put it on the ES only to protect the servo and other electronics on the rear shock?

11. It's entirely too hard to lubricate the pivot points for the rear swing arm, rear shock arm, etc assembly. A couple of $0.10 grease zerks (SP?) would save us HOURS of labor.

Again - this is nit picking and had zero affect on my buying decision. I wonder if Yamaha (and the others) spend time talking to people like us that have hundreds of thousands of miles of experience with these bikes for design inspiration on future models? The buyers survey is extensive and I'm sure useful, but they send it to you 30 days after you buy the bike. Really, who knows anything after 30 days?

OldButNotDead · Post by **OldButNotDead** » Wed Dec 14, 2016 10:27 am

Like Buddha, I tried Caterpillar O rings, Vista, BrakeAway, Kaoko, ThrottleMeister, and a bunch of others. If you do some searches back into Gen I and II lore you will see a lot of stuff on CC, mostly AudioVox and some units out of Australia. A buddy of mine actually came up with the fixes to the AudioVox to make it fairly reliable and posted them in one or two FJR forums. I don't think too many will argue the point that the friction/clamp things have lots of issues. I don't care for the units that work with the FJR's throttle linkage. Case in point, look at all the TBS threads plus the unauthorized TBS. The AudioVox had a few cases with chains braking and interfering with the throttle. Since I do my own maintenance, the less crap I have behind and above the engine the better I like it. I have CC on both my Gen III and GS. Both are great. The FJR's is IMO easier to manipulate especially for short engagements. On my previous GS, Gen II and Tiger, forearm and hand cramping would increase as the day progressed. On both bikes with electronic CC, it just about non-existent.

On the OP subject. Yamaha has NOT gone too far. They have not gone far enought. If you want to see electronic suspension done right on a sport tourer look at a Caponard or MultiStrada. Then you need to ask a the question, if I want that kind of suspension, do I want an FJR? OR, are you willing to pony up the bucks for those kinds of suspension components on an FJR?

wheatonFJR · Post by **wheatonFJR** » Wed Dec 14, 2016 10:31 am

Hppants wrote:
1. Why must we program the grip heaters to only 3 levels? Seems if they were going to dedicate a whole "LCD screen" to the grip heater setting, why couldn't they just program the software to allow us to toggle the full 1-9 range on the fly? NOT A PROBLEM FOR ME.

2. How much more would it cost to have self-canceling turn signals?
NOT A PROBLEM FOR ME.

3, I'm sorry, but Yamaha's idea of linked brakes is bass ackwards. Anyone that has ridden more than 100 miles knows that the front brake stops 95% of the bike. Why couldn't they make the REAR caliper have two reservoirs, and then when you squeeze FRONT brake, you also get 1 piston on the REAR caliper? Or better yet, why not offer both scenarios on the bike?
NOT A PROBLEM FOR ME...IN FACT I LIKE IT THIS WAY.

4. The glove box always has been too small and it always could have been MUCH bigger without altering the fairing at all.
NOT A PROBLEM FOR ME.

5. I think having the 12 accessory plug in the glove box is convenient, but I'd like the option to make it constant on v/s ONLY switched. For campers, it would be cool to be able to charge the phone overnight or look at the GPS from the campground without having to turn the key on.
NOT A PROBLEM FOR ME.

6. It boggles my mind that Yamaha hasn't made the front stay structural piece stronger - REALLY stronger. It is sooooo easy to add a couple of gussets to each mirror tab, making it 5 times stronger than it currently is, and thus making it much more "tip over proof".
I AGREE

7. I wish Yamaha would offer aftermarket accessory lights and thereby have the wiring harness pre-wired for this. No matter what anyone does or says, NO one can make aftermarket wiring as durable as the factory. Sooner or later, we all have to make an accessory wiring repair.
NOT A PROBLEM FOR ME.

8. How much more would an extra horn - with more than 78 DB cost? Seriously, the factory horn is a joke.
I AGREE, BUT NO BIG DEAL FOR THE AFTERMARKET.

9. The under seat area could have been re-worked to provide a TON more storage for the rider at ZERO additional cost. Again, for the camping tourer, every liter of dry storage is CRITICAL.
NOT SURE I SEE WHERE YOU SEE ALL THAT ROOM COMING FROM

10. Why doesn't the A model come with the rear fender flap that goes in front of the tire? Why do I have to buy this $6.00 part? That thing does a tremendous job of keeping pebbles, tar, etc. off my rim and inner fender. Obviously, they put it on the ES only to protect the servo and other electronics on the rear shock?
I AGREE.

11. It's entirely too hard to lubricate the pivot points for the rear swing arm, rear shock arm, etc assembly. A couple of $0.10 grease zerks (SP?) would save us HOURS of labor.
I AGREE.

OldButNotDead · Post by **OldButNotDead** » Wed Dec 14, 2016 10:36 am

What he added ^^^

NTXFJR · Post by **NTXFJR** » Wed Dec 14, 2016 2:46 pm

Pants makes some good points imo, but like he said, and same here, it didn't stop us from buying one. I'd say if we're down do this list of stuff, we could be a lot worse off. Still doesn't stop me from wishing for self cancelling signals though. I bought the ST2 unit a couple of months back, need to get off my arse and put the thing in one of these days.

palerider · Post by **palerider** » Wed Dec 14, 2016 3:00 pm

NTXFJR wrote:Pants makes some good points imo, but like he said, and same here, it didn't stop us from buying one. I'd say if we're down do this list of stuff, we could be a lot worse off. Still doesn't stop me from wishing for self cancelling signals though. I bought the ST2 unit a couple of months back, need to get off my arse and put the thing in one of these days.

What's the "ST2" unit?

NTXFJR · Post by **NTXFJR** » Wed Dec 14, 2016 3:07 pm

palerider wrote:
NTXFJR wrote:Pants makes some good points imo, but like he said, and same here, it didn't stop us from buying one. I'd say if we're down do this list of stuff, we could be a lot worse off. Still doesn't stop me from wishing for self cancelling signals though. I bought the ST2 unit a couple of months back, need to get off my arse and put the thing in one of these days.
What's the "ST2" unit?

//sts.safer-turn.com

They call it smart turn system
I got one for around $100 shipped

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

palerider · Post by **palerider** » Wed Dec 14, 2016 3:20 pm

NTXFJR wrote:
palerider wrote:
NTXFJR wrote:Pants makes some good points imo, but like he said, and same here, it didn't stop us from buying one. I'd say if we're down do this list of stuff, we could be a lot worse off. Still doesn't stop me from wishing for self cancelling signals though. I bought the ST2 unit a couple of months back, need to get off my arse and put the thing in one of these days.
What's the "ST2" unit?
//sts.safer-turn.com

They call it smart turn system
I got one for around $100 shipped

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Just checked out their site. Looks promising. How long must I wait before you install/test/review it? Are you busy this weekend?

NTXFJR · Post by **NTXFJR** » Wed Dec 14, 2016 3:33 pm

I'll be doing good to get it put on by spring at this point
Timmay put one on his bike and was really pleased with it
There are at least a couple over in the other sandbox that posted up on their installs as well and it seems so far so good with it
Rayzerman and I will be attempting gen 3 installs on our bikes, as far as I know we will be among the first to try it

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

palerider · Post by **palerider** » Wed Dec 14, 2016 3:35 pm

NTXFJR wrote:I'll be doing good to get it put on by spring at this point
Timmay put one on his bike and was really pleased with it
There are at least a couple over in the other sandbox that posted up on their installs as well and it seems so far so good with it
Rayzerman and I will be attempting gen 3 installs on our bikes, as far as I know we will be among the first to try it

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well then, I may just try it myself. You may have gotten special, early-adopter pricing. The price on their site just now is 149 Euro.

Harald · Post by **Harald** » Wed Dec 14, 2016 3:35 pm

Hppants wrote: 3, I'm sorry, but Yamaha's idea of linked brakes is bass ackwards. Anyone that has ridden more than 100 miles knows that the front brake stops 95% of the bike. Why couldn't they make the REAR caliper have two reservoirs, and then when you squeeze FRONT brake, you also get 1 piston on the REAR caliper?

Bad idea. How are you supposed to lock the front wheel so you can do a smokey burnout?!

NTXFJR · Post by **NTXFJR** » Wed Dec 14, 2016 3:38 pm

palerider wrote:
NTXFJR wrote:I'll be doing good to get it put on by spring at this point
Timmay put one on his bike and was really pleased with it
There are at least a couple over in the other sandbox that posted up on their installs as well and it seems so far so good with it
Rayzerman and I will be attempting gen 3 installs on our bikes, as far as I know we will be among the first to try it

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Well then, I may just try it myself. You may have gotten special, early-adopter pricing. The price on their site just now is 149 Euro.

They offered introductory pricing for a while iirc

There's a pretty good install write up in the other sand box someone posted up

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

palerider · Post by **palerider** » Wed Dec 14, 2016 3:44 pm

NTXFJR wrote:
palerider wrote:
NTXFJR wrote:I'll be doing good to get it put on by spring at this point
Timmay put one on his bike and was really pleased with it
There are at least a couple over in the other sandbox that posted up on their installs as well and it seems so far so good with it
Rayzerman and I will be attempting gen 3 installs on our bikes, as far as I know we will be among the first to try it

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Well then, I may just try it myself. You may have gotten special, early-adopter pricing. The price on their site just now is 149 Euro.
They offered introductory pricing for a while iirc

There's a pretty good install write up in the other sand box someone posted up

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks.

raYzerman · Post by **raYzerman** » Wed Dec 14, 2016 4:46 pm

To add a bit further, my "complaint" with Yamaha is that they have been obsessed with weight reduction and several changes have happened along the way...... the mirror stay, the substandard subframe, the one-sided damped forks on the A, the mudflap...... all that might have gained them something like 3 lbs? The glove box and 12V plug could have been WAY better.... if only I was the design engineer...

I was never a fan of the FJR linked brakes after having better. Pants is describing a Honda ST linked brake system which, once you catch on, is great for cornering as both ends of the bike will settle easier, etc. Very robust but heavy (front and rear pumps plus some other valving).

But, most things are done for a price and in keeping with the competition. We still get an FJR cheaper than it's direct competitors, and the latest features, whether full-featured or not, are there to keep us interested in the FJR more than the others. We are creatures of marketing.... I don't see how the black 2017's are going to make anybody all excited..........

Nevertheless, still the best bike I've had, bar none. The one I have is probably my last one..... I'm getting too old..........

palerider · Post by **palerider** » Wed Dec 14, 2016 4:47 pm

NTXFJR wrote:
There's a pretty good install write up in the other sand box someone posted up

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

HI,

I couldn't find such a thread. Do you know where it is, exactly?

raYzerman · Post by **raYzerman** » Wed Dec 14, 2016 5:57 pm

Well, we'll just have to get the admins to tune you in. Did you do a search? Ha ha....
It was written by our own Johnd ....... and Design Flaw chimed in with his. I had asked them to post up here so we have it in our back yard.....
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=2378

Twigg · Post by **Twigg** » Wed Dec 14, 2016 6:03 pm

My 1986 Yamaha Venture Royale had Air-adjustable suspension, Electronic Cruise Control AND Self-Cancelling indicators.

Yamaha knows how to do this.

FJRiders.com