FJRiders.com

raYzerman wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:33 pm I love chains! I love shafties!
Leather and handcuffs too.

I hesitate to think what might have gone on in my shop!!!! I gotta get some Lysol.

Pterodactyl wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:56 pm

raYzerman wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:33 pm I love chains! I love shafties!
Leather and handcuffs too.

I hesitate to think what might have gone on in my shop!!!! I gotta get some Lysol.

We used only what was in the shop, luggage was full, we didn't bring any extra stuff. That's all you need to know. We took no pictures, so you could say it didn't happen.

raYzerman wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:52 pm

Pterodactyl wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:56 pm

raYzerman wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:33 pm I love chains! I love shafties!
Leather and handcuffs too.

I hesitate to think what might have gone on in my shop!!!! I gotta get some Lysol.

We used only what was in the shop, luggage was full, we didn't bring any extra stuff. That's all you need to know. We took no pictures, so you could say it didn't happen.

The chain hoist?!?! Lord no.... Please tell me you didn’t defile the chain hoist.

Details are fuzzy, I'm old, my memory ain't the sharpest. I do believe there was alcohol involved though. 'Spozin' this will prompt you to install a hidden camera system for my next visit, so I'm onto you. I do recall though, we slept with Miss Tyler out there. On that whole trip, Jeff and I slept together like 28 consecutive days..... no pictures, so you don't have to believe me.

HotRodZilla wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:30 pm.
With all the whining I see about other bikes and people crying, "Oooh, woe is me. I could never own a bike with a chain and all that maintenance," there sure are a lot of instances of our perfect maintenance free drive shafts being a pain in the ass. I would say modern bikes with modern chains are just as easy if not easier to deal with than dirveshafts, u-joints, gear boxes and gear oil. They sure a Hellavua lot easier to work on.

Yup, almost unbearable. In 68,000 miles I’m on my 2nd quart of gear oil and need to replace a $10 seal which is 4 bolts plus a circlip beyond just removing the rear wheel. Shaft drives are simply horrible!

Quite frankly I might not need to replace the seal because it is not leaking now. Perhaps the old oil has leached out to be replaced by new swelling the seal tight enough to seal? Anyway, I’m waiting until the tire needs to be replaced as there is no immediate urgency.

gixxerjasen wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:00 pm

HotRodZilla wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:30 pm there sure are a lot of instances of our perfect maintenance free drive shafts being a pain in the ass.

I don't think there's so many instances of our drive shafts being a pain in the ass. Just seems some people like to make them a pain in the ass. I'm pretty sure there's been plenty of high mileage drive shafts that the owner just left alone and worked fine till something else happened to take the bike off the road.

We have T.W.O. on YouTube to thank for escalating the F.U.D.

That said, I'd say that those who think chains are a pain in the ass are probably the same ones doing maintenance on their perfect maintenance free drive shafts.

I’ve gone through a lot of chains on dirtbikes and feel qualified to comment. For a liter bike chain and sprockets will be at least $200, easily $300, plus labor. Mid 1970s before the rivet master link dealers were forced to purchase factory assembled continuous loop chains for streetbikes after lawyers robbed Kawasaki of $1M. Rider admitted to never having lubed or adjusted chain, 10,000 miles, was intoxicated on a Z1 at high speed when master link slapped against something and came off. Jury ruled Kawasaki was 70% liable. So for many years dealers were forced to remove swingarm to install new chain. Perhaps this is part of what drove technology for singe-sided swingarms?

I don’t want a chain for much the same reason I don’t want spoked wheels: too much maintenance. Put up with it on dirtbike because I tear everything up on the dirtbike. Is good to have replaceable parts on the wheel so as not to have to replace the entire wheel. In a group of 10 riders same bike you will find at least 5 different sprocket selections.

N4HHE wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 1:18 am

HotRodZilla wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:30 pm.
With all the whining I see about other bikes and people crying, "Oooh, woe is me. I could never own a bike with a chain and all that maintenance," there sure are a lot of instances of our perfect maintenance free drive shafts being a pain in the ass. I would say modern bikes with modern chains are just as easy if not easier to deal with than dirveshafts, u-joints, gear boxes and gear oil. They sure a Hellavua lot easier to work on.

Yup, almost unbearable. In 68,000 miles I’m on my 2nd quart of gear oil and need to replace a $10 seal which is 4 bolts plus a circlip beyond just removing the rear wheel. Shaft drives are simply horrible!

Quite frankly I might not need to replace the seal because it is not leaking now. Perhaps the old oil has leached out to be replaced by new swelling the seal tight enough to seal? Anyway, I’m waiting until the tire needs to be replaced as there is no immediate urgency.

Lol. Exactly! I don't care either way. My shaft drive bikes are very easy to maintain. My chain driven bikes have also been easy to maintain. My sarcasm is tilted towards those who insist on crying about the mere thought of riding a chain driven bike.

raYzerman wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:33 pm I love chains! I love shafties!
Leather and handcuffs too.

We ALL knew that already.

N4HHE wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 1:47 am

gixxerjasen wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:00 pm

HotRodZilla wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:30 pm there sure are a lot of instances of our perfect maintenance free drive shafts being a pain in the ass.

I don't think there's so many instances of our drive shafts being a pain in the ass. Just seems some people like to make them a pain in the ass. I'm pretty sure there's been plenty of high mileage drive shafts that the owner just left alone and worked fine till something else happened to take the bike off the road.

We have T.W.O. on YouTube to thank for escalating the F.U.D.

That said, I'd say that those who think chains are a pain in the ass are probably the same ones doing maintenance on their perfect maintenance free drive shafts.

I’ve gone through a lot of chains on dirtbikes and feel qualified to comment. For a liter bike chain and sprockets will be at least $200, easily $300, plus labor. Mid 1970s before the rivet master link dealers were forced to purchase factory assembled continuous loop chains for streetbikes after lawyers robbed Kawasaki of $1M. Rider admitted to never having lubed or adjusted chain, 10,000 miles, was intoxicated on a Z1 at high speed when master link slapped against something and came off. Jury ruled Kawasaki was 70% liable. So for many years dealers were forced to remove swingarm to install new chain. Perhaps this is part of what drove technology for singe-sided swingarms?

I don’t want a chain for much the same reason I don’t want spoked wheels: too much maintenance. Put up with it on dirtbike because I tear everything up on the dirtbike. Is good to have replaceable parts on the wheel so as not to have to replace the entire wheel. In a group of 10 riders same bike you will find at least 5 different sprocket selections.

Big difference between 1970's chains and the ones today. Also a big difference between how a street chain lives it's life and how a dirt bike chain lives it's life. My poorly maintained DID X-Ring on my FZ1 went about 20,000 miles. Your mileage may vary. Chains are easy to swap out so there's no labor cost. I can swap a chain faster than I can change a tire, and I do that too. There's a lot of great bikes out there to ride that have chains and a lot of riders riding happily on them for many miles. Just seems silly to shy away from them over things that aren't as big of a deal as people make them out to be.

Your five different sprocket selection comment is actually an argument FOR chains. For many years we had the argument over sixth gear on the FJR. Many felt it was fine the way it was, many wanted something taller. Chains give each rider the ability to customize that exact preference to suit their needs and riding style.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE my shaft drive FJR, and I especially love having clean wheels without actually having to clean them. I just think it's silly when people feel the need to moan about how awful chains are.

gixxerjasen wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:07 am Big difference between 1970's chains and the ones today.

Not really. The lawsuit not only removed the master link but drove the use of o-ring chains. No matter the o-ring a chain still needs lubrication for the contact with sprockets.

Also a big difference between how a street chain lives it's life and how a dirt bike chain lives it's life. My poorly maintained DID X-Ring on my FZ1 went about 20,000 miles. Your mileage may vary. Chains are easy to swap out so there's no labor cost. I can swap a chain faster than I can change a tire, and I do that too. There's a lot of great bikes out there to ride that have chains and a lot of riders riding happily on them for many miles. Just seems silly to shy away from them over things that aren't as big of a deal as people make them out to be.

Lot of riders "happily" put up with Harley-Davidsons too. Doesn't make it right, or better, or good.

I take longer to change a chain because I've never needed a chain and not needed sprockets too. I go through 2 countershaft sprockets per chain.

Your five different sprocket selection comment is actually an argument FOR chains. For many years we had the argument over sixth gear on the FJR. Many felt it was fine the way it was, many wanted something taller. Chains give each rider the ability to customize that exact preference to suit their needs and riding style.

But street is supposed to be so much different from off-road!

Off-road and on racetracks the right final drive ratio makes a big difference. On the street the FJR 5 speed vs 6 speed only proves how little it matters.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE my shaft drive FJR, and I especially love having clean wheels without actually having to clean them. I just think it's silly when people feel the need to moan about how awful chains are.

I'd like to have belt drive. My F800S is belt. Only good thing I've seen come out of Harley-Davidson is universal adoption of belt drive. However a belt would be absolutely the worst thing for a dirtbike. Belts do not tolerate dirt, and rocks.

The only thing I hate about my shaft drive is no more wheelies. I mean, it's impossible now, right?

wheatonFJR wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 12:24 pm The only thing I hate about my shaft drive is no more wheelies. I mean, it's impossible now, right?

I remember when (late 1970's) Cycle Magazine made good fun of something published in the New York Times claiming motorcycles wheelied because their chains were adjusted too tight.

HotRodZilla wrote: ↑Fri Nov 20, 2020 4:18 pm
How in the Hell does someone swap tires in 10 minutes? I'd be better off with a spare set of rims with tires mounted. I'd figure unless something went wrong there wouldn't be any reason to swap a front. Maybe just a rear if absolutely necessary.

I wonder if I could do an oil change in 10 minutes. Lol.

How about changing a bib mousse & tire in under one minute....

Corduroy Tire Change Contest

yamafitter wrote: ↑Wed Mar 24, 2021 6:10 pm

HotRodZilla wrote: ↑Fri Nov 20, 2020 4:18 pm
How in the Hell does someone swap tires in 10 minutes? I'd be better off with a spare set of rims with tires mounted. I'd figure unless something went wrong there wouldn't be any reason to swap a front. Maybe just a rear if absolutely necessary.

I wonder if I could do an oil change in 10 minutes. Lol.

How about changing a bib mousse & tire in under one minute....

Corduroy Tire Change Contest

I have seen those guys. I spend longer than that looking at my tools to see if I have the right implements. Haha!

HotRodZilla wrote: ↑Wed Mar 24, 2021 8:36 pm

yamafitter wrote: ↑Wed Mar 24, 2021 6:10 pm

HotRodZilla wrote: ↑Fri Nov 20, 2020 4:18 pm
How in the Hell does someone swap tires in 10 minutes? I'd be better off with a spare set of rims with tires mounted. I'd figure unless something went wrong there wouldn't be any reason to swap a front. Maybe just a rear if absolutely necessary.

I wonder if I could do an oil change in 10 minutes. Lol.

How about changing a bib mousse & tire in under one minute....

Corduroy Tire Change Contest

I have seen those guys. I spend longer than that looking at my tools to see if I have the right implements. Haha!

I spend a 1/2 hour just to find my FJR under the pile of junk in the garage. I've given up looking for tools in the garage, I just go out and buy new ones.

yamafitter wrote: ↑Wed Mar 24, 2021 9:14 pm

HotRodZilla wrote: ↑Wed Mar 24, 2021 8:36 pm

yamafitter wrote: ↑Wed Mar 24, 2021 6:10 pm

How about changing a bib mousse & tire in under one minute....

Corduroy Tire Change Contest

I have seen those guys. I spend longer than that looking at my tools to see if I have the right implements. Haha!

I spend a 1/2 hour just to find my FJR under the pile of junk in the garage. I've given up looking for tools in the garage, I just go out and buy new ones.

Those guys are completely bogus. Did you see either of them take a single pull off a bottle of beer? No, of course you didn’t.

yamafitter wrote: ↑Wed Mar 24, 2021 9:14 pm I spend a 1/2 hour just to find my FJR under the pile of junk in the garage. I've given up looking for tools in the garage, I just go out and buy new ones.

I have a nearly new box of nitrile gloves in my garage. Gave up trying to find so I made a trip to Harbir Freight. $22.99 for 50 in 9 mil now.

Pterodactyl wrote: ↑Wed Mar 24, 2021 10:16 pm
Those guys are completely bogus. Did you see either of them take a single pull off a bottle of beer? No, of course you didn’t.

When I change out the bib mousse and tires on my WR450F there is usually at a minimum 1/4 gallon of whiskey involved. You don’t need a stopwatch to measure how long it takes me, you need a calendar.