52,000 mile service - observations and lessons learned

[Hppants]

Skip down to post #4 for lessons learned.

I'm checking valves and doing other maintenance, and plan to sync my T/B-ies.

FSM says the reference t-body is the one with the "white paint". I cannot find any white paint on any of the throttle bodies. #1 has some blue dots on it, but #2 also has a couple of blue dots. There is something (a threaded stud with a nut on it) between #2 and #3 that has white paint on it, but that is not on either throttle body.

Anybody got any ideas?

Where on the t-body would this mysterious white paint be?

[ionbeam]

Well, you are in luck anyway. On the Gen 3 one of the throttle bodies (hereafter TB) will have the adjusting screw bottomed out, this is the reference TB you are looking for.

Well, you are in luck anyway #2. If isn't uncommon for the Gen III to not need sync adjustment. If you don't have to shim the valves just check the TB vacuum and see if it even needs adjusting. If you do have to shim any valves then the TBs may need syncing.

The reference TB was the one that had the least vacuum when all 4 screws were fully closed at factory setup. The other 3 are opened as much as it takes to match that one. This is done so that the fly-by-wire TB control can open the throttle plates as much as it needs to achieve the programmed idle speed.

If for some reason none of the TB sync screws is bottomed you can still sort it out. Once the engine is warmed up, close the sync screws one at a time, the one that has the lowest vacuum will be the reference cylinder that you will sync the other 3 TBs to.

When I checked my TB sync at the 600 mile service they were dead on and didn't need adjusting.

[raYzerman]

What Alan said. If there is paint, it will be or was on the screw itself or right beside it. I'll just add very rare situation if you can't sync them all, they all need a tad more air. Gen3 runs on minimal vacuum, but you can back out all of them a tad more (just enough) to get them all to sync... the one with the least amount out basically becomes your reference. Iff'n that works, mark it for reference next time should that ever be needed. Lipstick pink nail polish will work, I think Redfish uses that and he's not too far away.

[Hppants]

Found it. Was/is #1 - paint was in the adjusting screw itself.

Had to re-shimm intake cam. All now on the loosest 25-33% of the range. Exhaust was already on the loosest 40-ish percent. Surprised me as the exhaust gets hotter. I had two shim kits and had plenty of shims. Most common sizes needed were 1.75 and 1.80. Turned the motor by hand and then rechecked the gaps. All came out what I calculated the to be. I do like it when the plan comes together.

Doing this with only one cam pulled to the side was loads easier than both cams. Zip tied the chain to both cams and between the trigger wheel and the cam chain down low. That puppy didn’t move.

New spark plugs and cleaned the air filter.

Got the cam cover back on and tomorrow I’ll button it up and try the T/B sync.

I’d still rather ride it than work on it. But today wasn’t too bad.

[Hppants]

Just spent a couple hours yesterday in the shop. Put the motor back together and had to stop to cook lunch for the kids. We watched football in the afternoon.

DISCLAIMER: This is a bunch of dribble, but I wanted to write it down in case it might help someone else, and selfishly, for my own reference the next time I do it.

Wanted to share a few observations and lessons learned:

1. If you disconnect the throttle cables both at the motor end and at the handlebar, it is MUCH easier to wiggle the cam cover in and out of the motor.

2. Before even checking the first valve, clean the cam cover and the gasket and use a little red RTV in spots all around the cover to glue the gasket to the cover. Let that dry solidly for a couple hours while you work on the motor. Then hopefully the gasket will stay in place while you wiggle the cover onto the motor.

3. I've re-shimmed the valves on 3 FJRs now. All 3 needed either a 1.70, 1.75, or 1.80 shim to make the adjustment. If I were going into it blind, I'd make sure I had at least 5 of each of these sizes and I'd likely have all I need.

4. I am well aware that the FSM says that you cannot check the valve lash unless the crank is at TDC. However, I have often questioned the need for that. My believe is that the bottom half of the cam lobe is a perfect semi circle. As such, as soon as the valve is not touching the cam, for the entire 180 degree rotation of the bottom end of the lobe, the valve lash should be the same. To test this theory, we first checked the lash without removing the timing cover. I checked the lash in 5 different spots for each valve, starting at about 20 degrees into the semi-circle, then going about 30 degrees clockwise, making sure to include one check with the lobe at straight up. Using a set of "go/no-go" feeler gages, we found no measureable ("feel-able") difference in the measurement. I am aware that even with go/no go feeler gages, the measurement is subject to interpretation. But that subjectivity would have to be VERY subtile (less than 0.0005). With all 5 measurements, we knew with certainty that the exhaust cam was well within the loosest side of the spec, and the intake cam had at least 5 valves that were past the tightest end of the spec, and the other 3 were right at the tightest end of the spec. So I removed the fairing and the timing cover, and we checked them all again with crank at TDC per FSM. We "felt" no noticeable difference in the measurement. So I think that you can do the valve check without removing the timing cover, at least to get a very good idea of where you are. And if you are on the loosest side of the spec, then I wouldn't go any further on that check.

5. Doing just ONE cam at a time is WORLDS better than loosening both cams for keeping the timing chain in place. On a gen 2 FJR that I re-shimmed a couple years ago, we moved both cams at the same time and we had a heck of a time getting everything back in place. Of course, I had additional challenges with that particular motor, but that's another story.

5. The "shim chart" that someone posted years ago that supposedly makes it easy to choose a shim was totally confusing to us. I find it much easier to just take one valve at a time, measure the shim that was in the motor with a micrometer to verify it is what the shim say it is (we found that each one measured to within 0.005 mm), look at the measured clearance you wrote down, and then start with the next size smaller and calculate the expected clearance. In all but one case, we could only go one size down because 2 sizes would put us well outside the loose end of spec. In one case, we picked 2 sizes down and the end result was right at the loose end of spec. After we put it back together, each valve measured what we expected it to be. Now, all valves on my intake are well into the loosest 1/4 of the range spec. Frankly, I'm not sure I'll check them again. I'll bet seasoned mechanics just look at the shim in the motor, go one size down, and roll with it. With a range of only 0.003", there just isn't much more to choose from.

6. The age old tip of cutting a slot in the cam chain tensioner cover bolt is brilliant. I do not see how you can install that bolt otherwise. My MIL was a surgical nurse before retirement and years ago, she gave me a handful of s/s surgical tools. I stuck them in my tool box and never gave it much thought. This time, I used a set of offset stats she gave me and those worked beautifully in holding the cc tensioner cover bolt from the top in place while I used my long screwdriver to position it and ultimately tighten it.

7. I have no idea why the FSM tells you to take off the thermostat for the valve check. It is totally unnecessary. However, the hose clamp for the rubber hose to cooling pipe connection is in a bad position from the factory. For reassembly the first valve check, I rotated its position about 45 degrees and for the 2nd check, it was a piece of cake to get to.

8. I can't find a torque spec anywhere in the FSM for the timing cover. I went with 7.2 ft. pds, which is used for similar fasteners on other covers for the motor. Remember that there are two bolts on the timing cover that are longer than the others.

9. The spark plugs were replaced and had 26,000 miles on them. They were amazingly clean and hardly worn, and if my dad were with me, he would have told me to put 'em back in the motor. This motor runs hot and the computer does a wonderful job of metering the air/fuel. The spark plugs were incredibly clean. I was so impressed by that.

10. Over the past few tanks of gas, I've noticed a slight lowering of fuel mileage. I know - I know - it's subjective and a couple MPG is too close to know for sure. But I've got 150,000 miles on FJRs now. I know pretty darn well what my fuel mileage should be given conditions, riding style for the tank, etc. And where I expected 44 mpg, it was 42. Where I expected 42, it was 40. For this service, I'm changing spark plugs, re-shimmed intake cam, cleaned air filter (was hardly dirty), and a T/B sync. We'll see if that improves the mileage. I bet it will, but my problem is that I won't know which (or which combination) did the trick.

That's it for now - I'll chime in some more after I'm done with the whole job.

[raYzerman]

Comment on 4, if you have the timing cover off, line up the timing marks for #1 TDC, valves are pointed the right way (outward), rotate crank 180 to next timing mark, voila, #2 lined up (you don't need to look at the cam, just the timing marks.... next 180 is #4, next is #3. Done. Yes to removing only one cam, wouldn't do it any other way. IF you had the Yamafitter authored Valve Check spreadsheet, it tells you what shim you need, EZPZ. We'll have to get that put in the Tech Section.
As for shims, yes most of the FJR's I've done came into that range, and I would get shims, even some in betweeners (Rocky Mountain ATV). One exception, the current '14 motor in the project bike had larger shims than usual, most were 2.00. I swapped shims, never went below 1.86 for the replacement.
Sometimes you have to look at what the part is called, then find the torque... It's a pickup cover, torque 8.7 but I would go with less, you're good at 7.2. When it gets down to smaller torques, it gets down in the range of my torque wrench, don't trust that. Use inch pounds, or If you like, use a little loctite, snug 'em in until tight, call it a day.

[Hppants]

Thanks, Ray. Regarding #4, I'm (now) familiar with the FSM process of checking once the timing cover (or pickup cover) is removed. And of course the right side fairing is removed to get to the timing cover. What I was suggesting is that you can avoid that if you just make sure that the cam lobe is on the bottom 1/2 for the valve you are checking (on the semicircle, and off the valve). Just for checking purposes. If it turns out that you have one (or two) cams out of spec, then you simply must remove the timing cover or run the risk of having the motor out of time.

I do have an inch pound torque wrench (as well as a foot pound), but like you have suggested, I don't trust it's accuracy as much when the torque value is so low. On the timing (pickup) cover, I notice that there was no as much oil in that cavity. I wonder if it just gets a vapor from the top to keep it lubed, or does that whole thing get bathed?

Continuing my observations now that the whole job is basically finished.

11. My reference throttle body is #1. I was able to get all found in sync (they was only about 15 mm hg spread between all four), but #4 is now turned in all of the way. If I wanted to get nit picky about it, I would have liked another 1/16th of a turn clockwise on #4 - it's about 2-ish mm of hg off). But the point is, they are all within spec and we'll see if that helps with the fuel mileage.

12. I dropped one of the t/b nipple rubber covers in the hole of the casting between #1 and #2. CRAP!! I used one of the protective covers (same size) from my motion pro tool to cover the nipple. I'll order a replacement next time I order parts. Lesson learned - put a piece of paper towel or rag over the hole.

13. Putting together the throttle cables at the handlebar takes a 2nd pair of hands. I just cannot get both cables where they go without help. What kind (if any) of lubricant should be used for this? And where do you apply it?

14. There is a rubber cover with a slot in it that goes over the bottom edge of the plastic piece that keeps water/debris spray from getting into the engine compartment. It's located over the exhaust and one end of that fell down. I had to wait until the motor cooled off, then pull the right side fairing back off so I could get my hand up there and re-attached it. Lesson learned - check that before buttoning up the right side fairing.

Well, I'm glad it's over. Ready to roll another 50K!!!!

[raYzerman]

11. Won't do a thing for mileage, hopefully smooths out the vibes.
12. Go to your local auto supply and get the appropriate size ID long nipples, no need for clips, covers are under vacuum! Easily seen and taken on and off next time.
13. Yeah, three hands. Pretty much any spray lube will work that is liquid and will run inside the cables. Not WD40, something with some real lube in it. There are cable lubes available at bike stores.

[Hppants]

On Sunday, I rode almost 500 miles with buddies. All is well with the bike. My fuel mileage is back up to what I expected, and I have no idea which thing (or combination of things) did the trick. Also, the vibration particularly in the pegs is noticeably smoother, presumably from the T/B sync.

Now, time to replace the rear shock and ride it another 50K!!