Slow start: Help me figure this one out...

[0face]

Down at Hooterville the bike was starting slow. Like the battery was going bad. That's not it tho, cuz it's a basically a brand new battery.

So, here's what I discovered. It started slow this morning but it started as the bike was rolling forward, not in gear, clutch pulled in. Later I stopped for Gas and got the Waa..waa.. waa.. slow start sound. Put it neutral pulled in the clutch and hit the starter as I rolled the bike forward again. Started right up.

Here' s my question... WTF?!

Seriously tho.. is this the starter motor going bad?

[extrememarine]

Starter or bad/corroded connection somewhere. But, someone will have a better idea than me...

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[Geezer]

New battery, hmmm. I would look at the battery terminals and make sure they are nice and tight. If so then test the battery just to be sure it is good even though it is new. After that you may want to verify how many amps are being drawn by the starter before and after the relay. A starter that is on it's way out will draw more amps than a good one.

[0face]

I Have a sneaking suspicion it's the starter as it's progressively getting worse.

I just stuck a voltmeter on the whip i have on the battery for attaching to a charger... an SEA plug and got Zero volts, but it cranks like nothing is wrong now, so it may be something corroded or a loose connection to the battery.... plastic coming off later. Just got back from Hooterville.

[wheatonFJR]

If this is a relatively new battery, was this same issue occurring in the old battery? And maybe the reason for purchasing the new battery?

[John d]

Sometimes a second tightening at the terminals of a new battery is needed.

[Bust]

Voltmeter, unless it has a clamp on device ( for lack of a better word) isn't going to tell ya current draw Marty. You'll probably have to remove a little plastic to get to the single wire running to the starter. Clamp on around that an hit the button.

Someplace here there is info on what is acceptable current draw.

[Hppants]

Agree with Bust (never thought I'd write that). Do a REAL current draw test on the starter. Check battery connections first, and test the battery as well.

The FJR starter is known to gunk up the armature. I've replaced the motor on my Gen 1. Not the easiest job, but not too bad either.

[0face]

If this is a relatively new battery, was this same issue occurring in the old battery? And maybe the reason for purchasing the new battery?

I guess it could be.

[raYzerman]

If you are trying to start it with the bike in gear and clutch pulled in, you will have some clutch drag when the oil is cold. Always start it in neutral. If I understand it correctly, your problems were gone when you did that. However, zero volts on your SAE plug could be as simple as a blown in-line fuse. Fix that, and test the voltage the next few times you start it, in case there is some stray current draw bringing the voltage down over time (most likely an aftermarket accessory?). I agree check the battery connections are clean and snug.
Remember, 12.5 volts means the battery is 50% discharged..... should not happen overnight. Full charge on an OEM AGM/VRLA battery should be 13 volts (according to Yuasa). Mostly, my experience at rest is 12.8-ish (ECU, etc. has a small draw to maintain memory/clock/trip odometers). It's gonna be slow cranking if the at rest voltage goes below 12.5, might not start if it drops below 12.0.

[Powerman]

I sometimes "Start Slow" if I don't get my Fruit Loops for breakfast.

raYzerman seems close. Check the connections, I also check the frame ground and clean it up.
I've seen static tests look fine, but the ground couldn't take the current of the starter.

[NTXFJR]

Heat and cool cycles can make marginal electrical connections on cables and components come and go. Like was already said, I'd check all of the cable connections from the battery down to the starter motor including the solenoid relay and make sure they are clean and tight. The negative battery connections are as important to the circuit as the positive connections, and iirc our bikes have a mesh type cable bridging across from the engine block to the frame of the bike to complete the starter motor circuit. If that all looks good, the next easiest thing to check imo is the solenoid relay, they can and do go bad. The easiest way I know of to check that is to set your meter to dc volts and place the leads onto the cable post connections on each side of the relay, then watch for a voltage reading across that component while cranking the starter. If you see voltage while cranking, then the solenoid's internal relay contacts are bad. If the cables and solenoid look good, then you might want to check the starter motor current draw with an amp meter. A bad starter motor will draw more amps than it should which not only causes the battery to drain quickly, but also yields less starting torque to the engine. A dc clamp on style is the easiest way I know of to do that. Not sure what the amp draw would be on a good starter motor, but let us know if everything else checks out and I'm sure we can get you that information.
I believe a properly working system on our bikes with engine running should be around 13.5 to to 14 volts with a charged battery.

[Bust]

Agree with Bust (never thought I'd write that).

So ya wanna get naked or what?

[bungie4]

No speculate. Troubleshoot. Course, that makes for shitty threads on the forum.

I'm guessing you didn't use nitrogen in your tires.

[silverback]

Ok, so the easy way to do this is by measuring voltage drop.

Voltage drops any time there is a load. Hopefully that load is doing the work you want. The starter in this case. The starter should eat up all available voltage.

So...

First check the positive battery terminal to the starter relay battery side. Hit the starter. If it has any more than about 0.5V, that cable is bad. Replace it.

Check across the relay. If it has more than 0.5V...bad. Replace.

Check from the starter side of the relay to the starter lug. More than 0.5V, replace.

Now, if all that checks good, the starter to ground should read 12V. It should use up all the voltage. If it does not, you have a ground path issue. I.E. there is voltage being used after the starter. You can check ground cables the same way.

This is the simplest way I know to troubleshoot starter problems.

Also, I know you said it's a new battery, but just put the volt meter across the terminals and hit the starter. If that drops below about 11v. It's most likely a bad battery. It happens more than I like to admit.

If you have questions, PM me for a phone number and I can talk you through it.

[ionbeam]

0face
Location: Evanston, Illinois

Ok, I'll ask. Is your new battery a LiPO4 Battery (like a Shorai)? LiPO4 batteries don't perform like lead/acid batteries in the Frosty North areas.

[bungie4]

Ya, and just because it's a new battery doesn't mean shit.

My last car, the battery shit the bed. I replaced it, that battery internally shorted after about a week. Replacement battery (under warranty) did the same. Shit batteries. Get money back, buy another, shit the bed after 3 mo. Replace under warranty. All was good for a couple years until I sold the car.

[0face]

0face
Location: Evanston, Illinois

Ok, I'll ask. Is your new battery is a LiPO4 Battery (like a Shorai)? LiPO4 batteries don't perform like lead/acid batteries in the Frosty North areas.

Nope, Standard Yuasa.

[wheatonFJR]

Oooooooo, the expensive one even.

[0face]

Oooooooo, the expensive one even.

I know right? I cheaped out before...