Fuel injector cleaning - looking for advice

[specs95t]

I bought a 2004 Gen I with around 6,000 miles this past fall. When I bought it, I noticed a sputter during throttle blips from idle and an erratic idle after warm up.

I put in non-ethanol fuel, rode it for about 800 miles and noticed a reasonable improvement in sputtering from idle.

It was very clear that one cylinder was just not providing any power off idle, but would kick back in at 3k rpm and up. This kept improving with miles and was almost gone.

Living up in the great northeast, the weather turned bad and I had to let the bike sit for a few weeks, before I got a chance to go for a quick ride on a nice day.

The sputter came back full force, torque was pretty much non existent till 4K rpm and there was a clear "cut in" of power, once rpm was up.

I want to pull the injectors and give them a good cleaning over the winter. Does anyone have a good procedure?




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[Twigg]

An '04 with 6000 miles is a rare find, and is a bike that has sat for a long time, probably with gas in the tank.

Injector cleaning is expensive, and I'd leave that until you have thoroughly cleaned the fuel system, replaced the plugs and checked that the ignition system is firing cleanly. You might also give the throttle bodies a good clean, maybe running some SeaFoam through them.

If after that it still isn't running right, it would be time to get the injectors checked.

[raYzerman]

I agree check out the ignition first..... one thing I'd do is unscrew the wires from the spark plug adapters, trim off 1/4" to get some fresh wire, spread the strands nicely and screw/push them back on.
That said, some Seafoam in the tank, perhaps go a little stronger with an injector cleaner (or Yamaha RingFree) for a tank or two...... then see how it's going.........

[HotRodZilla]

A couple of riders here and on the other forum have sent their injectors off to be cleaned. I think JamesK was one of them, but I don't remember, and don't remember who else did it. I do recall them saying the injectors were much more uniform after coming back. I want to say it was around $120 to have them done, but again, I don't remember.

Taking the already provided advice is a VERY good idea though. You may just have a dirty system that some good cleaner might fix. I'd definitely give that a shot first!

[kieefjr]

Here's a couple depending on where you live.

http://www.mrinjector.us

http://www.fuelinjectorman.com/marinefuelinjectors.html

I sent the ones out of my 97Ranger to FL and that cleaning made a different truck out of it.

Good luck but, as said, the whole fuel system needs a cleaning on that bike.

[NBB]

An '04 and is a bike that has sat for a long time, probably with gas in the tank.

.

When I got the '06, it behaved in a similar fashion, I did a heavy seafoam to clean the fuel system while running pure gasoline ( no ethanol). After that tank of fuel was fully used, swapped plugs and all was good, never had that issue again.

[NTXFJR]

Just a thought, have you checked your oil level? My son's '04 had a similar history and the #1 injector wound up being a leaker. Long story, but we opted for new injectors vs getting them serviced because of time issues.

[e2b]

Use TECHRON and buy Chevron or Texaco gas. These gas stations put it in all grades unlike Shell which only puts it in Premium Use a container of Techron from a autoparts store in your area for the initial cleaning process it will probably take some time. A GM engineer told me about this stuff for my S-10 to resolve a start up issue. It worked so well that when they recalled that system mine worked to well and didn't qualify.

[specs95t]

Just a thought, have you checked your oil level? My son's '04 had a similar history and the #1 injector wound up being a leaker. Long story, but we opted for new injectors vs getting them serviced because of time issues.

I've put about 1500 miles on it from the time that I bought it and sea foam and Mr Moly fuel Aid made the issue nearly go away. Then the bike sat for a week or two do to fall weather in the northeast and I was back to square one and worse - missing a cylinder on idle...

The oil level, however was ok. But your tip is a good one. I'll check that as soon as I get her out of hibernation.


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[NTXFJR]

DCarver in the other sandbox posted up a nice report on his injector service, it was within the past year. He did a full ultrasonic service on them because of symptoms similar to what you describe. When we replaced them on my son's bike, we were able to do them in his apartment parking lot in around 2 hours complete. PM me if you want to know what we did, but it was one of the easier services we did so far.

[Red]

I bought a 2004 Gen I with around 6,000 miles this past fall. When I bought it, I noticed a sputter during throttle blips from idle and an erratic idle after warm up. I want to pull the injectors and give them a good cleaning over the winter. Does anyone have a good procedure?

specs95,

A stumble off of idle can be as simple as an idle setting that is too low. The Idle should be ~1100 rpm, when the engine is fully warmed up. If the idle is set too low, you will get a stumble as you open the throttle. I do not doubt that the other problems are real and separate issues, but a too-low idle can make you think that things are broke, when they are actually normal. I would definitely give the SeaFoam (or other injector cleaner) another try at cleaning the injectors, also.

Cheers,
Red

[specs95t]

My stumble was cured by fixing things in the ignition system. Had one fouled plug.

Note to self - if Seafoam doesn't clear things up, pull the spark plugs and give them the eye!


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[silverback]

Full agreement with Techron. It will clean up most any sludgy type deposits that can be dissolved. A bike that's been sitting may have a bunch of insoluble crap caught in the injector screens, like rust from condensation inside the tank. This requires new injectors, or ultrasonic cleaning. Personally, I don't know that I would trust a rebuilt injector. But that's just me.

Also a good time to hand out general advice: In aircraft, it's wise to store them with full tanks. It keeps condensation down and limits water in the fuel, which usually finds its way to the engine about 200 ft AGL when you need the engine the most.

Works on automobiles, motorcycles, lawnmowers, etc even if they don't fly.

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[Red]

In aircraft, it's wise to store them with full tanks. It keeps condensation down and limits water in the fuel, which usually finds its way to the engine about 200 ft AGL when you need the engine the most. Works on automobiles, motorcycles, lawnmowers, etc even if they don't fly.

Silverback,

I would agree, if the fuel was 100% non-ethanol, and maybe including a fuel stabilizer. Ethanol fuels can absorb water (and I believe that some unscrupulous fuel stations may even add water on purpose). This ethanol fuel can degrade, and cause rust in the tank. A dry, empty tank would be better than storing ethanol fuel in it for any extended time.

There are many places in the USA to buy non-ethanol gasoline for vehicles, not just the airport. Google can locate these good places for you.

[silverback]

Ethanol does indeed absorb, or more likely dissolve, water into the mix. However, it does not so a great job of preventing the rust caused by water. I have seen many many tanks on older vehicles with rust in them after the Advent of ethanol. Now days the cars use plastic tanks to prevent rust. Probably not as aggressive as pure water, but still not good.

Best way is to prevent as much water from entering the system as possible. If the tank is full, there is less room for water vapor because there is less air in the tank. Less vapor is less condensation due to temperature fluctuations.

A dry tank would be optimal, but running the fuel pump dry is bad for it in an expensive kind of way. So, I don't recommend running it out of fuel if possible. And, who is going to drain the tank every winter and clean all the residual fuel out? Ok. Yeah. Some people will, but I don't because I will probably ride the thing when the stress are not iced over. Just easier to keep a full tank.

Just a few thoughts to ponder.

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[specs95t]

Easier to keep a full tank of ethanol free fuel for storage. In NYS, we have Stewart's gas stations that sell 91 octane ethanol free fuel.


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[raYzerman]

Actually, ethanol is a poor attractor of moisture, it will only absorb about 4.5% from what I read. Isopropanol on the other hand will take care of far greater water....... what is really happening is, there is a bit of water in gasoline, and after a week or so, the ethanol and water phase separates, leaving the water at the bottom of the tank... Seafoam works because it has isopropanol in it.

[silverback]

Actually, ethanol is a poor attractor of moisture, it will only absorb about 4.5% from what I read. Isopropanol on the other hand will take care of far greater water....... what is really happening is, there is a bit of water in gasoline, and after a week or so, the ethanol and water phase separates, leaving the water at the bottom of the tank... Seafoam works because it has isopropanol in it.

Yup

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[HotRodZilla]

Gonna have to agree with Silverback and Ray on this one. We've seen a couple FJR tanks suffer serious rust issues in neat empty steel tanks. Just fill it and stabilize the fuel.

As far as injectors, a couple guys have removed them and sent them off to be cleaned and "balanced." Basically, they're pushing the same amount of fuel +/- a relatively tight tolerance. The guys that have done that reported good results and it wasn't crazy expensive. It's been a long time since I've seen one of those posts. May have to Google someone that can do it. Maybe you'll get lucky and find someone local.