Tapered Roller Steering Bearings

[Twigg]

Doing this, with All-Balls 22-1003

The replacement job shouldn't be difficult, especially as the forks are out already and being rebuilt.

My question is about the final torque setting, a question not answered by a Google search as everyone seems to have a different answer.

The OEM setting for ball bearings is 13 ft lb. This seems a little high for tapered bearings, even though there is a well-known thread on the "other" place where someone thought that 13 lb should be much higher for tapered bearings.

I want to ride in a straight line occasionally, so my thought was that it should actually be rather lower, and was thinking of starting around 4 to 5 ft lbs, and going from there.

Does anyone have a setting that works, or should I simply play with mine until I get it right, then let you all know what worked for me?

[SLK50]

It's more a matter of feel than a hard number.
Tapered rollers do not require any preload.
However, most will find that too loose, with little
to no dampening.
With the front wheel off the ground, adjust until
steering is smooth with little to no bounce when
it hits the stops.
Readjust after a few hundred miles when they've
fully bedded.

Almost forgot: After installing, tighten them up
good and tight and turn the bars a few times
from lock to lock. Then loosen and adjust as
above.

[Twigg]

That sounds like a plan.

[dmsantam]

+1 on what SLK50 said

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

[raYzerman]

Steve, I would trust your judgement on this, but I'd be interested in your first impressions...... some have said they don't make a difference, me I'm neutral willing to listen. If they're definitely better, I'll do it (I've had a set here for a few years now).

[Twigg]

Steve, I would trust your judgement on this, but I'd be interested in your first impressions...... some have said they don't make a difference, me I'm neutral willing to listen. If they're definitely better, I'll do it (I've had a set here for a few years now).

The engineering suggests they should work more effectively, but the disadvantage is that they will require more frequent maintenance to keep it so.

Radial-load bearings (OEM) can be pre-loaded and the loading isn't all that critical. So 10 ft lb to 20 ft lb is probably just fine for the OEM bearings. The disadvantage is that the bearing surface is small and the loading becomes a "point-load" ultimately causing stiffness and notchiness.

Tapered bearings require only the load needed to take up the slack, and distributes it over a much larger, flat surface. Keep them clean and adjust them annually, and they should last forever. The stem is pulled against the top bearing surface with an axial load, much like the stub axel in a car. Tapered bearings are a natural choice for this scenario.

My guess is that Yamaha chose the OEM bearings because they are tough, they last decently well and they are forgiving of so-so adjustment.

All of that is before I fit them ... When they have been in a while I'll report on performance. It has to be said though ... in all the miles on the bike I have never had a problem, never suffered a weave, or a "wobble", so there is no real imperative to change and the benefits, if any, will be marginal.

[rbentnail]

I seated mine at 45 then backed off and adjusted to 20. About 2 weeks later I did it again, same way. Been fine since. Biggest thing was the cleaning and finish sanding of the steering stem so the inner race was a tight fit but not a press fit. Way back there were reports of broken races from not having a good fit so I took plenty of time, like 3 hrs worth, to make sure of the fit and the seating of the inner race. Didn't want the race to "pop" into place as I was riding.

http://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.ph ... =24459&hl=

[raYzerman]

This is one of the reasons I hesitated doing it at all. Witnessed one job where bearings were heated, triple tree frozen, still was a beatch to install.... a good press would be handy too........

[Twigg]

http://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.ph ... =24459&hl=

"You do not have permission to view this topic."



I've been Iggy'd

[wheatonFJR]

Well, you ain't the only one. Maybe Russ can copy and paste over here?

[Geezer]

I copied the original first post bellow. After that there are 84 more posts, mostly about specific experiences.

The interesting ones are about how to actually press the new bearings on. The easiest way seems to be to freeze the shaft and heat the bearing race in your oven so it can slip on. Otherwise it requires a sleeve of some sort and some pounding. When I did it I used to old bearing to protect the new one, and a length of pipe as a sleeve.

There is also some question about the quality of AllBalls bearings, but mine have been fine for a lot of miles.


Here it is, without the pictures (originally posted by JimLor):



Posted 08 August 2007 - 08:50 PM
I’m writing this for those of us who aren’t wrench-turners by trade or by hobby and experience, but still want to delve into the inner workings of our bikes and do as much maintenance as we can w/o dealer involvement. If you’re at the upper end of mechanical expertise, you can move on unless you want to check my details here, which is fine!

I replaced my steering head bearings with the All Balls Racing (AB) set (22-1003) from All Balls Racing All Balls Racing which as you will see, are much more substantial then the OEM bearings. I will caveat this by saying that I was not unhappy with the OEM bearings and I wasn’t having any problems – I was overdue for the bearing maintenance (I’m at 25k+) and figured I’d go the whole route and put in new ones.

To get this done you have to remove the side plastic, front wheel, forks, and the upper and lower brackets. Here’s a picture of what my upper setup looked like with the upper bracket removed, looks dirty but the grease/dirt wiped right of and the components looked good.



One note of caution – you must remove the brake wire jumble that is attached to the lower bracket. There are 2 horizontal screws (bolt head) that go in front to rear and 2 vertical Allen head bolts that go in from the bottom up. Do not get in a hurry and loosen the single larger bolt underneath (vertical) – brake fluid will leak out and you will realize you screwed up! I got done yesterday, put Maxine back together, crossed my fingers, …nope, no front brakes – no I have to bleed them before I test ride.



The upper and lower bearings consist of 3 parts; inner race, bearings, outer race. This is a mixed picture, it shows the OEM bearings on the left, and the All Balls bearings in the center (inner race comes installed inside) and the All Balls outer race on the right.



EDIT - here's another picture that shows the difference between the OEM outer race (left) and the AB outer race (right); AB is significantly more robust!



When you pull the lower bracket you’ll see the inner race which is pressed onto the steering stem (pull the rubber dust shield off), it’s a different color then everything else;



the bearings which are ball bearings in a plastic race; and the outer bearing which is pressed into the steering head. Upper bearing: the outer race is likewise pressed into the top of the steering head, the bearings are the same as the lower bearings, and the inner race is easily removed as it just sits on top of the bearings. I should mention here that the AB bearing sets only have 2 components, the outer race and the bearings which have the inner race already installed.

You need to remove the lower inner race off of the steering stem. I went to 2 dealers (1 Yami and 1 BMW) and neither would remove the bearing (I suspect that didn’t want to take the 30 seconds necessary). So, I took Smitty’s advice and used my handy Dremel with a cutoff wheel and cut a slot in the lower inner race (being careful not to cut into the steering stem) – I whacked it occasionally with a cold chisel hoping it would snap, what finally worked was using the cold chisel at an angle in the slot as if to unscrew the inner race, that did loosen the inner race and I was able to tap it off. This probably took all of 10 minutes.



To remove both the lower and upper outer bearings (in the steering head), you take a Drift (a. A tool for ramming or driving something down; b. A tapered steel pin for enlarging and aligning holes) and drive the outer races out of the steering head. As you look down into the steering head, you can see where the race sits, you will also see at 3 and 9 O’clock small indents (I should add that the outer race is already gone in this picture).



You position your drift on the race within those indents and tap away. You don’t need to whack away for all you’re worth, but “firm” taps are called for. Alternate from side to side and eventually the race will pop out. Put a towel over your gas tank so the upper inner race won’t scratch it when it pops out.

Clean the grease off of everything. I installed the new lower and upper inner races first. I used the old OEM outer races on top of the new outer races to tap the new ones in. When you place the new race into the steering head it will go in about half way or more (just try and get it evenly inserted). I then placed the old race over top of the new race matching their edges, and tapped away with what is actually a small upholstery hammer – rotate your tapping around and you’ll feel the race seating itself. You can feel when it’s reached bottom by the feedback you feel in the hammer, it’ll sound solid and bounce back. The upper is much easier to insert – for the bottom race you’re working on your back looking up, and you have the brake lines in the way, but neither job is difficult.

Getting the lower inner race on the steering stem is next. You first put the dust shield on the stem (you’ll find that the dust shield will actually snap onto the lower part of the bearing to help you tell which side is up/down) then the bearing. You will have to drive the bearing onto the shaft. I put the bearing on the shaft and then used the old inner race (the one I cut off) on top of that. That lets you hit the inner race on the AB inner race and not the entire bearing (put the old inner race on upside down, skinny part down). I then used a 1 ¼” PVC pipe over that, put a piece of wood on top of that, and whacked away. Note – the bottom of the lower bracket is not level, the ends stick down and the center is not supported – put the center of the bracket on something solid to support it, an anvil would be nice if you have one handy. Now, my bearings did not seat all the way down, there is a small gap. But, I did get the feedback that indicates that the race is as far down as it’s going to go. I’ll keep an eye on it in the future, but I’m confident it’s seated as far as it’s going to go. (Edit – sitting in a meeting a few minutes ago I was bored and jotted down a picture of the stem/lower inner race – lo and behold it hit me like a freight train – the lower inner race is wide at the bottom and narrows at top to accept the bearings. In other words, the bearings actually sit on the lower inner race above the bottom of the stem! So, if the AB bearings are to seat at the same place on the stem, there will be a gap at the bottom – that’s my story.)

Grease, I did use the grease in the palm and run the bearing over your hand method before I drove on the bearing – I also put more on the outside just before inserting the lower bracket/stem back inside the steering head.

Next, I greased the upper bearing and put it all back together, wiggling the bracket every once in a while to make sure it was seating/seated and moving properly. The upper bearing goes in like this – outer race (already in the steering head) bearing, dust seal then the various nuts, etc. The book says to torque the nut (the one you need the million dollar spanner to properly tighten) to an initial 37 Lbft, then back off and retorque to a final 13 lbft. Smitty (my guide in this process who deserves and has my appreciation!) said that because these are tapered bearings, he added 10 lbft to both. I split the difference and initially torqued to 43 lbft, backed off and torqued to a final 18 lbft.

Once I got everything back together, I found I had no clutch and no front brakes! No clutch I assume because I had the handlebars laying on top of the bike at strange angles and I assume the fluid was “upset.” (Note – I have the D&D risers and have to remove the handlebars from the upper bracket (triple tree) in order to get the socket on my million dollar nut (Stem nut). After letting the bike sit and squeezing the lever a few times, the clutch is back to normal. I’m sure my brake line harness loosening fubar let air into the front brake system and I will need to bleed the brakes to get them back – it did.

I think this job is well within the capabilities of most shade tree mechanics and those who want to learn to do stuff to their bikes. Looked at in its entirety it might seem a daunting task, but when you break it down into its component parts, nothing is difficult The only special tool you need is the spanner and a drift – frankly, any long, thin, probably metal rod will work in place of the drift (stout screwdriver, metal rod, etc). This took me almost a week because I was doing it in between doing other household chores and duties. If I have set aside the time to do it all at once, I would guess 3 – 5 hours would probably be total time from start to finish with disassembly/assembly taking the majority of the time.

Additionally, the folks at All Balls Racing agreed to send me 2 sets of the bearings to give out as door prizes at EOM – so 2 folks out there will have an opportunity to do this thanks to “All Balls.”

Got my brakes bled last night and rode on Tuesday. Steering feels very nice, smoother at low speeds and I guess I’d say more solid at higher speeds; not difficult to turn, but it does feel more solid. I’ll also add that I did have the “wobble under deceleration” that some folks have mentioned. Yes, it was after I put on my Avons, but it was also after 19,000 or so miles without steering head maintenance. And, it was not at all noticeable unless I took my hands off the handlebars while decelerating (and even then it wasn’t a big deal). That is now gone – can’t say whether that’s because of the tapered bearings, or whether normal maintenance and retorqueing of the OEM bearings would provide the same results. The All Balls are a nice addition and now I know more about my bike then I did before.

I hope this helps explain in sufficient detail (w/pictures) how to do this for those sitting on the fence not sure if they have the skill or not. Not that you need to do this, but if you want to, it’s not too difficult. As a way of thanks one more time, Smitty was very helpful to me on this project and his advice was much appreciated. If anyone has any questions, I’m more than happy to try and answer them based on my vast, vast experience of having done this exactly 1 time.

And I did this in Aug 2007:

[Cav47]

I’m writing this for those of us who aren’t wrench-turners by trade or by hobby and experience, but still want to delve into the inner workings of our bikes and do as much maintenance as we can w/o dealer involvement. If you’re at the upper end of mechanical expertise, you can move on unless you want to check my details here, which is fine!

I replaced my steering head bearings with the All Balls Racing (AB) set (22-1003) from All Balls Racing All Balls Racing which as you will see, are much more substantial then the OEM bearings. I will caveat this by saying that I was not unhappy with the OEM bearings and I wasn’t having any problems – I was overdue for the bearing maintenance (I’m at 25k+) and figured I’d go the whole route and put in new ones.

To get this done you have to remove the side plastic, front wheel, forks, and the upper and lower brackets. Here’s a picture of what my upper setup looked like with the upper bracket removed, looks dirty but the grease/dirt wiped right of and the components looked good.



One note of caution – you must remove the brake wire jumble that is attached to the lower bracket. There are 2 horizontal screws (bolt head) that go in front to rear and 2 vertical Allen head bolts that go in from the bottom up. Do not get in a hurry and loosen the single larger bolt underneath (vertical) – brake fluid will leak out and you will realize you screwed up! I got done yesterday, put Maxine back together, crossed my fingers, …nope, no front brakes – no I have to bleed them before I test ride.



The upper and lower bearings consist of 3 parts; inner race, bearings, outer race. This is a mixed picture, it shows the OEM bearings on the left, and the All Balls bearings in the center (inner race comes installed inside) and the All Balls outer race on the right.



EDIT - here's another picture that shows the difference between the OEM outer race (left) and the AB outer race (right); AB is significantly more robust!



When you pull the lower bracket you’ll see the inner race which is pressed onto the steering stem (pull the rubber dust shield off), it’s a different color then everything else;



the bearings which are ball bearings in a plastic race; and the outer bearing which is pressed into the steering head. Upper bearing: the outer race is likewise pressed into the top of the steering head, the bearings are the same as the lower bearings, and the inner race is easily removed as it just sits on top of the bearings. I should mention here that the AB bearing sets only have 2 components, the outer race and the bearings which have the inner race already installed.

You need to remove the lower inner race off of the steering stem. I went to 2 dealers (1 Yami and 1 BMW) and neither would remove the bearing (I suspect that didn’t want to take the 30 seconds necessary). So, I took Smitty’s advice and used my handy Dremel with a cutoff wheel and cut a slot in the lower inner race (being careful not to cut into the steering stem) – I whacked it occasionally with a cold chisel hoping it would snap, what finally worked was using the cold chisel at an angle in the slot as if to unscrew the inner race, that did loosen the inner race and I was able to tap it off. This probably took all of 10 minutes.



To remove both the lower and upper outer bearings (in the steering head), you take a Drift (a. A tool for ramming or driving something down; b. A tapered steel pin for enlarging and aligning holes) and drive the outer races out of the steering head. As you look down into the steering head, you can see where the race sits, you will also see at 3 and 9 O’clock small indents (I should add that the outer race is already gone in this picture).



You position your drift on the race within those indents and tap away. You don’t need to whack away for all you’re worth, but “firm” taps are called for. Alternate from side to side and eventually the race will pop out. Put a towel over your gas tank so the upper inner race won’t scratch it when it pops out.

Clean the grease off of everything. I installed the new lower and upper inner races first. I used the old OEM outer races on top of the new outer races to tap the new ones in. When you place the new race into the steering head it will go in about half way or more (just try and get it evenly inserted). I then placed the old race over top of the new race matching their edges, and tapped away with what is actually a small upholstery hammer – rotate your tapping around and you’ll feel the race seating itself. You can feel when it’s reached bottom by the feedback you feel in the hammer, it’ll sound solid and bounce back. The upper is much easier to insert – for the bottom race you’re working on your back looking up, and you have the brake lines in the way, but neither job is difficult.

Getting the lower inner race on the steering stem is next. You first put the dust shield on the stem (you’ll find that the dust shield will actually snap onto the lower part of the bearing to help you tell which side is up/down) then the bearing. You will have to drive the bearing onto the shaft. I put the bearing on the shaft and then used the old inner race (the one I cut off) on top of that. That lets you hit the inner race on the AB inner race and not the entire bearing (put the old inner race on upside down, skinny part down). I then used a 1 ¼” PVC pipe over that, put a piece of wood on top of that, and whacked away. Note – the bottom of the lower bracket is not level, the ends stick down and the center is not supported – put the center of the bracket on something solid to support it, an anvil would be nice if you have one handy. Now, my bearings did not seat all the way down, there is a small gap. But, I did get the feedback that indicates that the race is as far down as it’s going to go. I’ll keep an eye on it in the future, but I’m confident it’s seated as far as it’s going to go. (Edit – sitting in a meeting a few minutes ago I was bored and jotted down a picture of the stem/lower inner race – lo and behold it hit me like a freight train – the lower inner race is wide at the bottom and narrows at top to accept the bearings. In other words, the bearings actually sit on the lower inner race above the bottom of the stem! So, if the AB bearings are to seat at the same place on the stem, there will be a gap at the bottom – that’s my story.)

Grease, I did use the grease in the palm and run the bearing over your hand method before I drove on the bearing – I also put more on the outside just before inserting the lower bracket/stem back inside the steering head.

Next, I greased the upper bearing and put it all back together, wiggling the bracket every once in a while to make sure it was seating/seated and moving properly. The upper bearing goes in like this – outer race (already in the steering head) bearing, dust seal then the various nuts, etc. The book says to torque the nut (the one you need the million dollar spanner to properly tighten) to an initial 37 Lbft, then back off and retorque to a final 13 lbft. Smitty (my guide in this process who deserves and has my appreciation!) said that because these are tapered bearings, he added 10 lbft to both. I split the difference and initially torqued to 43 lbft, backed off and torqued to a final 18 lbft.

Once I got everything back together, I found I had no clutch and no front brakes! No clutch I assume because I had the handlebars laying on top of the bike at strange angles and I assume the fluid was “upset.” (Note – I have the D&D risers and have to remove the handlebars from the upper bracket (triple tree) in order to get the socket on my million dollar nut (Stem nut). After letting the bike sit and squeezing the lever a few times, the clutch is back to normal. I’m sure my brake line harness loosening fubar let air into the front brake system and I will need to bleed the brakes to get them back – it did.

I think this job is well within the capabilities of most shade tree mechanics and those who want to learn to do stuff to their bikes. Looked at in its entirety it might seem a daunting task, but when you break it down into its component parts, nothing is difficult The only special tool you need is the spanner and a drift – frankly, any long, thin, probably metal rod will work in place of the drift (stout screwdriver, metal rod, etc). This took me almost a week because I was doing it in between doing other household chores and duties. If I have set aside the time to do it all at once, I would guess 3 – 5 hours would probably be total time from start to finish with disassembly/assembly taking the majority of the time.

Additionally, the folks at All Balls Racing agreed to send me 2 sets of the bearings to give out as door prizes at EOM – so 2 folks out there will have an opportunity to do this thanks to “All Balls.”

Got my brakes bled last night and rode on Tuesday. Steering feels very nice, smoother at low speeds and I guess I’d say more solid at higher speeds; not difficult to turn, but it does feel more solid. I’ll also add that I did have the “wobble under deceleration” that some folks have mentioned. Yes, it was after I put on my Avons, but it was also after 19,000 or so miles without steering head maintenance. And, it was not at all noticeable unless I took my hands off the handlebars while decelerating (and even then it wasn’t a big deal). That is now gone – can’t say whether that’s because of the tapered bearings, or whether normal maintenance and retorqueing of the OEM bearings would provide the same results. The All Balls are a nice addition and now I know more about my bike then I did before.

I hope this helps explain in sufficient detail (w/pictures) how to do this for those sitting on the fence not sure if they have the skill or not. Not that you need to do this, but if you want to, it’s not too difficult. As a way of thanks one more time, Smitty was very helpful to me on this project and his advice was much appreciated. If anyone has any questions, I’m more than happy to try and answer them based on my vast, vast experience of having done this exactly 1 time.

And I did this in Aug 2007:

[Twigg]

Thanks guys ...

I still think 23 ft lb of torque on a tapered roller bearing is too much ... I guess I'll find out.

[Geezer]

Thanks guys ...

I still think 23 ft lb of torque on a tapered roller bearing is too much ... I guess I'll find out.

I don't remember using a torque wrench. I just tightened them up until I felt the steering stiffen up and then backed off a tiny bit until there was just a little drag when turning the bars. I have not felt the need to go back and re-adjust them since the initial installation about 100k miles ago.

[SLK50]

Other than the FJR, most of my bikes have had
tapered steering bearings.
The FSMs typically caution against over tightening
and none list a torque value.
As has been stated, it's about "the feel".
If there is any resistance to steering, it's too tight.

[Powerman]

I won tapered All Balls Racing bearings at an EOM, installed them same as Geezer.

Ended up heating the steering head with the heat gun and freezing the races with refrigerant.
Made a tool and knocked the shit out of them to seat the races. While later I heard them pop
during some spirited riding and had to tighten them again?

[raYzerman]

Thanks guys ...

I still think 23 ft lb of torque on a tapered roller bearing is too much ... I guess I'll find out.

Reference point for whatever it's worth..... my WR has tapered rollers..... spec. is 27 ft. lbs. initial, back off, final torque 5.1 ft. lbs.

[Twigg]

Thanks ...

I guess that "feel" is more important, especially given the calibration of many torque gauges ... but 3-5 ft lb was going to be my best guess

[Twigg]

So I have the old bearings out.

Top race is smooth, still packed with grease which is soft, and the races are completely unmarked.

Bottom race is in a similar condition, with very slight marks and no hint of notches or roughness.

That's some pretty good bearings Yamaha fitted.

I will replace them anyway as I have the new bearings in hand and the originals have 122k on them however good they feel. But I have to say, the build quality of this bike impresses me every time I do something to it.

Question: How did you all remove the lower race from the steering stem?

[Geezer]

I used a Dremel with a grinder stone on it and cut most of the way through, as far as I dared without touching the shaft with the grinder, and then a chisel to crack it the rest of the way.