Tire balance

[Charlie Horse]

Got a question for anyone with experience using Dynabeads in their tires. I just mounted a new set of PR4's on the bike. I seem to have a rumble at very high speeds that I didn't have before. Feels like the whole bike is shaking...not the steering. I'm trying to figure out if I just need to add a little more or what. I put 2 oz in front and 2 oz in the rear. Any opinions? TIA

[OldButNotDead]

Several times over the years things didn't seem to work out right with tires. It is a total PITA but I totally removed the tire and remounted it to have the problem go away. If you do go that route, one of the first things to do is check the balance of the wheel without any weights on it. Last but not least, it is rare but definitely possible you could have a bad tire.

[blrfjr]

I had a dealer install a set of tires on my feej ONCE and they put dyna beads in them and I didnt even know it until I installed the next set myself.
Just my 2 cents

[Auburn]

Really your first post here is to ask about dyna beads?

You asked the same question on the FJRForum too. I believe it was your second post over there.

Dnya beads are a great theory but work like shit in practice. As I said over on the other forum, is you want to waste your time (and money) on them, go right ahead. It takes all of a minute to do a static balance and you walk away knowing instantly that your tires are balanced and good for speeds way beyond what the FJR is capable of.

What's next you going to start an oil thread and complain about the Yamahama whale gis price required for the final shaft drive...

[wpbfjr]

Really your first post here is to ask about dyna beads?

You asked the same question on the FJRForum too. I believe it was your second post over there.

As I said over on the other forum, is you want to waste your time (and money)....

wayne die and make you forum admin? you a stalker tracking the dudes actions? upset they've ignored your sage "wisdom"?

this place is laid back. maybe you want to start a NERT for this forum, too?



Sent from my TRS-80 using Tapatalk

[Auburn]

I agree it is laid back. I frequent both, don't post much here. Just calling out a stupid question for what it is, as many who frequent here have done so on the other forum.

[OldButNotDead]

Actually, this is a subject that isn't worth fighting over. Also, it seems that the second part of the question is being overlooked and may be the most important. IMNSHO, those bead would not cause the rumble unless you stuck a couple pounds of them in the tire. Something else is the culprit.

For about four or five years now I have not even balanced my tires. I don't see any difference. Wear is just about the same and IMO varies more on luck of the draw in the purchase.

[Auburn]

Actually, this is a subject that isn't worth fighting over. Also, it seems that the second part of the question is being overlooked and may be the most important. IMNSHO, those bead would not cause the rumble unless you stuck a couple pounds of them in the tire. Something else is the culprit.

For about four or five years now I have not even balanced my tires. I don't see any difference. Wear is just about the same and IMO varies more on luck of the draw in the purchase.

Agreed.

His second part is with regard to "at very high speeds" which is wear an unbalanced tire will really show up. And why a static balance is the ticket. You know right away if the tire is balanced. Not miles down the road wondering if you put in the right amount of dyna shit.

[Charlie Horse]

I posted this on several forums looking for different experiences...not to start a war. AuburnFJR, I've used what you refer to "dyna shit" in every damned bike I've owned for the last 15 years.....NEVER had an issue until now. I wasn't looking for smart alec comments, just, as my post stated "anyone with experience" not just anyone with an opinion. It kinda pissed me off when the "other forum" threw my post into NEPRT before I even had a chance to READ the comments. I don't understand why every bike forum has people up in arms every time somebody posts subjects like tires or oil and the like when I clearly labeled the title TIRE BALANCE. If you didn't want to read it, then don't click on it.....very simple. As for the rest of the comments, I thank you very much for your assistance.
That's my 2 cents worth.

[Charlie Horse]

By the way, if you think you it's a stupid question, it's really the stupid question that doesn't get asked.

[OldButNotDead]

Charlie, the only thing stupid that you did was post it on that other forum and expect that it would be treated in a civil manner. There are lots of people who swear by the beads and another bunch that swear at them. Kinda to be expected when dealing MC Heads.

[HotRodZilla]

OBND, it actually was treated in a civil manner. From the tone of your post, I'm assuming you haven't bothered to read over there, so before you start blabbing judjments, why don't you try to know what you're talking about?

Charlie, your thread got put into NEPRT because it is Never Ending and Recurring, even if it is not Pointless. Don't be so sensitive. Who cares where it is? It obviously has lots of traffic because you've gotten lots of opinions.

What I don't understand is, if you've been using beads this long, how you suddenly don't understand what's going on with them. If you've had that many bikes and that many tires over time, you would know there may be numerous things going on.

Could be bad balance due to the beads not working as advertised. I once threw a weight from my front tire on the way home from Oregon. The bike didn't vibrate until over 80mph. Then it was terrible, and got worse as speed increased. I had to stop at a Cycle Gear in Vegas, get a weight and stick it where the first fell off. They ran smooth for the remaining 7k.

You could have a bad tire. If it's out of round, no amount of balance will fix it.

Maybe the beads clumped up, which would make them not work correctly.

The tire could be mounted incorrectly and your bead not be even across the rim, which would also not be fixed by balance.

The solution to this is to remove the tire, static balance it and try again. If it still vibrates, you have a tire issue and not a balance issue. If it does fix the vibration, your issue was with the beads. BUT, with your extensive experience, you should have known that.

[blind squirrel]

http://www.tundraheadquarters.com/blog/ ... ing-tires/

[silverback]

So, I haven't been able to prove the concept of dyna beads through dynamics, inertial methods or any other realm of physics. Also, a rather polite email to the purveyors of said beads readily indicated that they haven't either, unless "proprietary physics" is an actual valid point. Ergo, I stick with moment equilibrium such that the moment around the center of rotation is zero. Normally this is accomplished through adding mass to increase the moment on the low side.

Put plainly, just use lead wrights and a $100 balancer from Harbor Freight. No proprietary stuff about it.

[OldButNotDead]

Silverback, just because you have an engineering degree doesn't mean that if you can not prove something it ain't so. On the other side just because a company makes claims, like dyna beads, it doesn't mean they work. Dyna beads aren't the only active rotational balance method out there. There are liquids sold that do approximately the same thing, a bunch of them RideOn for one. There are rings with mercury in them that are attached to drive shafts to dampen vibration built on the same principal, the heavy liquid migrates to the light spot. Like you said, put plainly, I would trust experimental evidence more than applying something out of a statics or dynamics book.

[silverback]

Silverback, just because you have an engineering degree doesn't mean that if you can not prove something it ain't so. On the other side just because a company makes claims, like dyna beads, it doesn't mean they work.

Engineering degree aside, the opposite of that statement is true. If they don't work it cant be proven.

I have an engineering degree. This is the second onslaught you have given me for it and backed it with zero factual evidence. I have come to the conclusion you are no longer worth acknowledging. Put plainly, my time is better spent not dealing with you.

[OldButNotDead]

Engineering degree aside, the opposite of that statement is true. If they don't work it cant be proven.

Now there is some logic for you. Whether you believe your interpretation of your Statics or Dynamics Courses are valid or not, proving whether or not dyna beads work or don't is rather easy. Probably easier on a car tire than a bike tire though, but the principle is the same. Go to a tire shop with a dynamic balancer. Deliberately add weights to make it out of balance. Then add dyna beads to see if they can offset the imbalance.
Rather than me try to set you straight, why don't you read this.
http://www.ride-on.com/how-does-ride-on ... tions.html

[silverback]

Engineering degree aside, the opposite of that statement is true. If they don't work it cant be proven.

Now there is some logic for you. Whether you believe your interpretation of your Statics or Dynamics Courses are valid or not, proving whether or not dyna beads work or don't is rather easy. Probably easier on a car tire than a bike tire though, but the principle is the same. Go to a tire shop with a dynamic balancer. Deliberately add weights to make it out of balance. Then add dyna beads to see if they can offset the imbalance.
Rather than me try to set you straight, why don't you read this.
http://www.ride-on.com/how-does-ride-on ... tions.html

Yeah... A marketing flyer that actually says "Newton's first law". That was a really cool advertisement. Too bad they don't answer the original question I posed. Neither have you come to think of it.

[Geezer]

If the beads work as claimed, then I would guess that there is something about this particular tire that prevents the beads from moving to the required location inside the tire. Maybe some irregularity on the surface inside that blocks the beads from moving freely.

[OldButNotDead]

I really don't know or care whether the beads work or not. In a previous post I provided a method to figure it out. Competition Accessories did a test on RideOn, a liquid that makes similar claim and tested it https://search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?p=c ... mp=yhs-004. Of course it may not be as rigorous as some may like, but it worked. My question for the bead guys would be how may beads it would take to offset an imbalance "if it worked." Considering the price of tires and frequency I change them, I'm not going to use either based on economics.