2014 Service Manual

[beemerdons]

Good one Alan.. Seems one of the morons didn't "do" his due diligence.

But he's an argumentative SOB anyway.

Cool now I'm in!

[HotRodZilla]

Hey hey...NotDead guy talked to a lawyer. We all know lawyers know everything, so that one lawyer's opinion must not be questioned regarding anything about any copyright law whatsoever.

Hell, here's an idea: Go ask 5 lawyers how to beat the civil lawsuit or criminal offense of your choice. You'll get 5 different answers and chances are they could all be ludicrous. However they are all lawyers.

[wpbfjr]

First, why would an FJR site actually worry about Yamaha getting mad at them.

many forum members have been "banned" and "timed out" for asking that very question.

confidential deals are made all the time. the non-disclosure riders of those deals make proving anything laborious and whistle-blower dependent.


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[HotRodZilla]

First, why would an FJR site actually worry about Yamaha getting mad at them.

many forum members have been "banned" and "timed out" for asking that very question.

confidential deals are made all the time. the non-disclosure riders of those deals make proving anything laborious and whistle-blower dependent.


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Not sure where you're going with that WPB, but my version of the answer is this:

I don't think anyone cares if Yamaha is "mad." But what if Yamaha decides a couple of forums are encouraging people to buy or manufacture pirated stuff? Say they decide these forums have sold/bought 10,000 copies of their copyrighted manual. At $100 each, that's a million dollars. So Yamaha has decided these Forums cost them a million bucks, their lawyers are bored and some bean counter looking for a promotion gets a wild hair up his butt.

Suddenly, the offending forums and every member on each of them is listed in a 4,000 page lawsuit. Remember, Yamaha has a team of lawyers. The rest of us, especially the forums owners/administrators will have to put out $250 an hour for legal representation. Who do you think will run out of money first??

Is that extreme and very unlikely? Hell yes, but as forums, Yamaha has been known to acknowledge us more than once. I'm sure our admins and senior members frowning on pirating Yamaha's stuff helps that relationship. I wonder how helpful they might be if we were the opposite.

So, instead of getting mad, stomping around, and trying to make an argument that could go either way, why not just get it and let it go?

FWIW, this is one of the most one sided discussions I have ever seen; meaning, usually there are a few on each side and some riding the fence. This time it is you and everyone else. That should be a hint, considering the diversity among these groups. No one is picking on you, you're just very hard headed, which I can totally appreciate. I'm stubborn as Hell, but even I know when I'm teetering on the wrong side of the fence.

[silverback]

I used Napster once...

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[wpbfjr]

hrz wrote...

i did not stake out a position on the manuals... tho i think the earlier observation that, to our knowledge, yamaha has not taken action against the actual vendors of the materials in question, nor have they taken action against the sites that host those vendors, is spot on.

i also agree that model specific forums become defacto sales channels for the various manufactures.

in your scenario, how would bored yamaha attorneys shutting down or fining a fan forum for facilitating the spread of questionably sourced materials, send a message to the actual peddlers and hosts of the sites where the financial transactions are made?

i think larger forums have a symbiotic relationship with the manufactures.

at the end of the day, i wholeheartedly agree with you that if a person is going to buck up $14k for a fjr, add the $100 manual to the financing... lol...

letting go, dana


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[OldButNotDead]

"If you think you know what copyright law makes legal or illegal, and you are not a lawyer specializing in copyrights, you are probably mistaken."
Thank you for proving me absolutely correct!
#1 As previously stated I've been through this before with lawyers, that is plural for the reading impaired. It was a major topic of discussion for government agencies in the State of SC for almost six years.
#2 Yamaha has NEVER registered a copyright with the U.S. Government on any FJR related material. That means they have not taken anyone to court over FJR related copyright infringement.
#3 Bounce is correct about the "automatic" copyright. That is what I previously described as the "bluff" method. Let me explain how that works.
a. In this case Yamaha marks a service manual with copyright statements.
b. Yamaha would have to discover an offender and notify them that they are violating their copyright.
c. If the offender does not cease, Yamaha would have to register the copyright and go to court.
d. IF YAMAHA WINS and they probably would in the case of the service manual, the court would order the offender to cease violating the copyright.
e. IF YAMAHA seeks damages or compensation, NOW READ THIS PART CAREFULLY, the damages or compensation would begin at some point AFTER the copyright was registered and the offender notified.
#4 Just as an FYI I did contact Mechanic2Mechanic. I think that they and the other similar companies are operating on the assumption that Yamaha and the other MC manufacturers just don't care enough to take them to court. Item #3e applies.
#5 Logic, not sure how many of you understand that concept, would imply that if Yamaha isn't enforcing copyrights on any bike, they really don't exist. That is what I mean by "bluff."
#6 The guys who believe that in the case that a site would be shut down for facilitating copyright infringement are delusional.
#7 I've wasted too much time on this.

[HotRodZilla]

You know what...Nevermind!!

Kisses!!

[beemerdons]

Lemme see...delusional, reading impaired morons who don't understand logic! Yet you're the one demanding apologies.

Again, that attitude says a lot about a person, and none of it is good.

I love the idea that you know you shouldn't be stealing stuff, but since Yamaha's only bluffing, it's ok. Same justification common thieves and liars use. Don't forget: It's what you do when you think others aren't looking that defines your morals. Yours are FUBAR…IMHO.

I'm 100% with AJ on this one, if you should come to an FJRiders.com Event and we see you stealing items from the local Convenience Store: Do you think we FJRiders.com would condone it , because the Store Owner didn't see you stashing the pilfered candy bars in to your riding jacket? Come on OldButNotDead, Man Up! It's the same damn thing! Why can't you see that!

[clocklaw]

#7 I've wasted too much time on this.

Rod,
I'm going to back you up here. I completely agree.....with this statement.

[bungie4]

I personally know the owner of a little 2-man shop who is in talks with Honda Corp. because he used "HOND" as part of his repair shop's name. Technically a trademark issue but it serves to make the point that international corporations do pay attention and take action for some of the smallest things.

This.

Part of copyright, patent, trademark and industrial design law is it MUST be enforced. Failure to do so will have your 'license' revoked.

[wpbfjr]

I personally know the owner of a little 2-man shop who is in talks with Honda Corp. because he used "HOND" as part of his repair shop's name. Technically a trademark issue but it serves to make the point that international corporations do pay attention and take action for some of the smallest things.

This.

Part of copyright, patent, trademark and industrial design law is it MUST be enforced. Failure to do so will have your 'license' revoked.

so other than proxy support from a few forum owners and some of their denizens, yamaha is not enforcing their digital copyright of various manuals online.


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[HotRodZilla]

I personally know the owner of a little 2-man shop who is in talks with Honda Corp. because he used "HOND" as part of his repair shop's name. Technically a trademark issue but it serves to make the point that international corporations do pay attention and take action for some of the smallest things.

This.

Part of copyright, patent, trademark and industrial design law is it MUST be enforced. Failure to do so will have your 'license' revoked.

so other than proxy support from a few forum owners and some of their denizens, yamaha is not enforcing their digital copyright of various manuals online.


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Yes! Now get back in line and stop causing trouble, or there'll be no Jello for you mister!!

[bungie4]

Saves yer money, takes yer chances.

Meh, I've got a shiny new 2013 Factory Manual.

[ts3doug]

Pretty sure we've all posted pics on a forum that were a copyright issue. The manuals floating around on sportbike forums dwarf anything a bunch of old farts on sport tourer could ever pilfer. Doubtful anything would ever come of it. I assume none of you have watched a burned DVD or used that clip converter site. You are all pretty much damned if you ever xeroxed a Hagar the Horrible strip and hung it up on your cubicle walls. Shit, one time (back in the day) I even taped Star Wars off HBO.

[ts3doug]

this pic of me pops isn't protected by copyright, you may enjoy as you see fit.

[ionbeam]

Pretty sure we've all posted pics on a forum that were a copyright issue. The manuals floating around on sportbike forums dwarf anything a bunch of old farts on sport tourer could ever pilfer. Doubtful anything would ever come of it. I assume none of you have watched a burned DVD or used that clip converter site. You are all pretty much damned if you ever xeroxed a Hagar the Horrible strip and hung it up on your cubicle walls. Shit, one time (back in the day) I even taped Star Wars off HBO.

A difference is that you aren't marketing someone else material as your own and reselling it in a consumer market for your profit. Plus, they under price the original content producer, thereby (unfairly) cutting into their sales. This is a bit more than copying a few individual items for your personal consumption, with no intention of profiting from its use or competing in the market. When you copy a Dilbert cartoon, the author has already been paid, as long as you aren't reselling you aren't cutting into the originator's profit.

[ts3doug]

I know, I was just trying to be a shit.

[ts3doug]

I do know thrspeedtriple was getting shit from a website because too many pics of naked chicks were being hot linked from it. Not the same thing, but it shows people do pay attention.

[beemerdons]

I know, I was just trying to be a shit.

Knock it off ts3doug, that is HotRodZilla's job! DAMNIT! JSNS!