No first or second gear
- Festus
- Contributor
- Veteran
- Posts: 4833
- Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 3:40 pm
- FJRModel: 2013 FJR, 2023 KTM 390 Adventure
- x 4035
- x 10851
No first or second gear
Well, I suppose it's time for another chapter in the Viper Dad book of motorcycling.
A couple weeks ago he told me that some times he struggled to get the bike into first gear when it was cold. After riding all day, he never had any more issues.
Yesterday, he shows up at the meeting location and tells me he can't get it into first or second gear. This problem happened a lot during the day but was not isolated to first and second. At times, he couldn't get third gear either. We looked at it a couple times and it just felt like pushing down on the level, it just wasn't going far enough. At lunch time we adjusted the linkage rod but only 1/2 a turn because it was tight and the only wrench we had wouldn't do it. After that, he had first and second again. That was short lived as he lost them again 30 minutes later.
We've talked through how the whole system works for a good hour over time and only thing I come up with his the linkage. He purged and bleed his clutch fluid in the summer. Did it right, I watched I would think if it were a shift fork, it would pop out of gear, a clutch issue, it would stall or slip. I'm not master on that system so I need some input. He changes his oil frequently and has always run YamaLube, which is what Rob used prior to Viper Dad getting it.
Any ideas? Keep in mind, it does come and go, and with the bike off, on centerstand, you cannot make it go into lower gears some times. Other times, it'll go fine.
A couple weeks ago he told me that some times he struggled to get the bike into first gear when it was cold. After riding all day, he never had any more issues.
Yesterday, he shows up at the meeting location and tells me he can't get it into first or second gear. This problem happened a lot during the day but was not isolated to first and second. At times, he couldn't get third gear either. We looked at it a couple times and it just felt like pushing down on the level, it just wasn't going far enough. At lunch time we adjusted the linkage rod but only 1/2 a turn because it was tight and the only wrench we had wouldn't do it. After that, he had first and second again. That was short lived as he lost them again 30 minutes later.
We've talked through how the whole system works for a good hour over time and only thing I come up with his the linkage. He purged and bleed his clutch fluid in the summer. Did it right, I watched I would think if it were a shift fork, it would pop out of gear, a clutch issue, it would stall or slip. I'm not master on that system so I need some input. He changes his oil frequently and has always run YamaLube, which is what Rob used prior to Viper Dad getting it.
Any ideas? Keep in mind, it does come and go, and with the bike off, on centerstand, you cannot make it go into lower gears some times. Other times, it'll go fine.
extrememarine loved this
"That wasn’t as bad as I thought it would be" - 1911
"Stay thirsty, my friends"....... Wouldn't that mean I'm dehydrated all the time?
"Stay thirsty, my friends"....... Wouldn't that mean I'm dehydrated all the time?
- raYzerman
- Contributor
- I post more than I ride
- Posts: 9621
- Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:49 am
- FJRModel: 2010 Honda CBF1000FA
- Location: Millgrove, Ontario, CA
- x 3108
- x 11476
Re: No first or second gear
If the shifter doesn't return to a neutral position, it can't ratchet into the next gear...... ie, shift lever not returning to a neutral position. Easiest thing to do is remove left footpeg stay, and clean/lube the pivot, and a little squirt of something in the Heim joints wouldn't hurt.... shift mechanism must move freely and return to its full travel on it's own. Common for it to get sticky after a buncha miles. Note left footpeg stay bolts all have loctite..... torque on the T50 one is stupid (too high), 20-25 is enough.
Last edited by raYzerman on Mon Jan 01, 2024 10:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
CollingsBob, wheatonFJR, gixxerjasen and 1 others loved this
Keep yer stick on the ice........... (Red Green)
Duct tape can't fix stupid, but it can sure muffle the sound.
Duct tape can't fix stupid, but it can sure muffle the sound.
- extrememarine
- HMFIC
- I post more than I ride
- Posts: 6825
- Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:17 pm
- FJRModel: 2009 FJR
- Location: SE Michigan
- x 2068
- x 12994
- Contact:
Re: No first or second gear
the easy button
Edit - what Ray said...
Take the footpeg piece off and examine the linkage pivot point. #9 in this diagram.
Edit - what Ray said...
Take the footpeg piece off and examine the linkage pivot point. #9 in this diagram.
Ride There!
-Wayne aka asphalt surfer...
IBA#60836
#Peteyismyhero & #JWillywashere
-Wayne aka asphalt surfer...
IBA#60836
#Peteyismyhero & #JWillywashere
- FJRoss
- Veteran
- Posts: 2663
- Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:41 pm
- FJRModel: 2011 FJR 1300
2017 BMW F700GS - Location: Fredericton NB (Canada)
- x 812
- x 2387
Re: No first or second gear
+1 on making sure the clutch is properly bled.
Verify that there is proper throw to the clutch at the lever. In particular, make sure that the brass bushing in the lever is clean, lubed and not worn.
I would remove, clean, re-lube and readjust the shifter - making sure the main pivot isn't too tight. Clean the main pivot as well as the linkages.
Other than that, it seems to me that I read where someone had a shift return spring break but I don't remember who or which spring. The result was that the shifter didn't return properly to the middle position between shifts so couldn't go to the next gear.
Verify that there is proper throw to the clutch at the lever. In particular, make sure that the brass bushing in the lever is clean, lubed and not worn.
I would remove, clean, re-lube and readjust the shifter - making sure the main pivot isn't too tight. Clean the main pivot as well as the linkages.
Other than that, it seems to me that I read where someone had a shift return spring break but I don't remember who or which spring. The result was that the shifter didn't return properly to the middle position between shifts so couldn't go to the next gear.
- Festus
- Contributor
- Veteran
- Posts: 4833
- Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 3:40 pm
- FJRModel: 2013 FJR, 2023 KTM 390 Adventure
- x 4035
- x 10851
Re: No first or second gear
Thanks! Will pass it along.
Don't worry Wayne, the time is getting nearer
Don't worry Wayne, the time is getting nearer
"That wasn’t as bad as I thought it would be" - 1911
"Stay thirsty, my friends"....... Wouldn't that mean I'm dehydrated all the time?
"Stay thirsty, my friends"....... Wouldn't that mean I'm dehydrated all the time?
- Festus
- Contributor
- Veteran
- Posts: 4833
- Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 3:40 pm
- FJRModel: 2013 FJR, 2023 KTM 390 Adventure
- x 4035
- x 10851
Re: No first or second gear
May be fixed. Time will tell. Both connections behind that lower cover were not freely moving. He got them freed up and put it back together and on the center stand without it running, it ran though all the gears up and down. We'll wait for feedback from a road test when it's possible for him.
PhilJet09, Cav47, Hppants and 1 others loved this
"That wasn’t as bad as I thought it would be" - 1911
"Stay thirsty, my friends"....... Wouldn't that mean I'm dehydrated all the time?
"Stay thirsty, my friends"....... Wouldn't that mean I'm dehydrated all the time?
- FJRoss
- Veteran
- Posts: 2663
- Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:41 pm
- FJRModel: 2011 FJR 1300
2017 BMW F700GS - Location: Fredericton NB (Canada)
- x 812
- x 2387
Re: No first or second gear
Removal, clean and lube of the gearshift linkage is part of my annual maintenance. (I do it the same time as the rear brake pivot.)
The main pivot on the shifter especially but also the two "ball" joints beneath the rubber dust covers. Those ball-head Allen bolts screw out so you can properly clean and lube them. Ideally, the main pivot needs to be snug but on one of my Gen II bikes, it would bind if I went too far - wave washer was essentially flattened. I ended out moderately snug with a bit of blue Locktite on the threads as insurance. First time I did this service (after owning the bike a couple of years) I was surprised at how much better the bike shifted.
The main pivot on the shifter especially but also the two "ball" joints beneath the rubber dust covers. Those ball-head Allen bolts screw out so you can properly clean and lube them. Ideally, the main pivot needs to be snug but on one of my Gen II bikes, it would bind if I went too far - wave washer was essentially flattened. I ended out moderately snug with a bit of blue Locktite on the threads as insurance. First time I did this service (after owning the bike a couple of years) I was surprised at how much better the bike shifted.
wheatonFJR loved this
- Festus
- Contributor
- Veteran
- Posts: 4833
- Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 3:40 pm
- FJRModel: 2013 FJR, 2023 KTM 390 Adventure
- x 4035
- x 10851
Re: No first or second gear
Just got the report. Shifts excellent now. All is good!
Thanks again for the help!
Thanks again for the help!
PhilJet09, bigjohnsd, Cav47 and 8 others loved this
"That wasn’t as bad as I thought it would be" - 1911
"Stay thirsty, my friends"....... Wouldn't that mean I'm dehydrated all the time?
"Stay thirsty, my friends"....... Wouldn't that mean I'm dehydrated all the time?
- extrememarine
- HMFIC
- I post more than I ride
- Posts: 6825
- Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:17 pm
- FJRModel: 2009 FJR
- Location: SE Michigan
- x 2068
- x 12994
- Contact:
Re: No first or second gear
Thank goodness it was just a simple maintenance item...
You can ride these things like you stole them, but you do have have to give 'em some TLC every now and then...
I'm wondering how a day trip with no first or second gear will impact clutch plate life???
Wayne
You can ride these things like you stole them, but you do have have to give 'em some TLC every now and then...
I'm wondering how a day trip with no first or second gear will impact clutch plate life???
Wayne
Ride There!
-Wayne aka asphalt surfer...
IBA#60836
#Peteyismyhero & #JWillywashere
-Wayne aka asphalt surfer...
IBA#60836
#Peteyismyhero & #JWillywashere
- Festus
- Contributor
- Veteran
- Posts: 4833
- Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 3:40 pm
- FJRModel: 2013 FJR, 2023 KTM 390 Adventure
- x 4035
- x 10851
Re: No first or second gear
We didn't stop muchextrememarine wrote: ↑Mon Jan 01, 2024 4:46 pm I'm wondering how a day trip with no first or second gear will impact clutch plate life???
Wayne
FJRPittsburgh, Uncle Hud, Bugnatr and 1 others loved this
"That wasn’t as bad as I thought it would be" - 1911
"Stay thirsty, my friends"....... Wouldn't that mean I'm dehydrated all the time?
"Stay thirsty, my friends"....... Wouldn't that mean I'm dehydrated all the time?
-
- Veteran
- Posts: 3048
- Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2013 1:16 am
- FJRModel: 2014 SuperTanker1200. 2018 DCT Hippo,
2007 KLR650... the Goldwing of thumpers - Location: Northwest Peardale, Ca
- x 6089
- x 5958
Re: No first or second gear
That's A way to fix it!
wheatonFJR loved this
It's too deep, this is a bike not a canoe.
- Toter
- Veteran
- Posts: 1011
- Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2019 8:01 am
- FJRModel: 2015 FJR 1300 ES "Renee", 2021 BMW R1250GS Rallye, 2022 BMW R1250GS Adventure, 2016 DRZ 400S (Bush Piglet)
- Location: North Georgia
- x 1501
- x 2152
Re: No first or second gear
Jolene seems to be a crotchety, cantankerous old Bi zich. Always wanting attention!
Viper_Dad, FJRPittsburgh, and wheatonFJR loved this
I spent most of my money on guns, motorcycles, women, and whiskey. The rest I just wasted!
- Festus
- Contributor
- Veteran
- Posts: 4833
- Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 3:40 pm
- FJRModel: 2013 FJR, 2023 KTM 390 Adventure
- x 4035
- x 10851
Re: No first or second gear
Fixed it for you
Toter, Intech, and FJRPittsburgh loved this
"That wasn’t as bad as I thought it would be" - 1911
"Stay thirsty, my friends"....... Wouldn't that mean I'm dehydrated all the time?
"Stay thirsty, my friends"....... Wouldn't that mean I'm dehydrated all the time?
- FJRPittsburgh
- Contributor
- Veteran
- Posts: 1888
- Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2017 1:10 pm
- FJRModel: 2013 A, 2008 AE has been sold.
- Location: Canonsburg, PA
- x 8560
- x 3617
Re: No first or second gear
That's awesome that it was something simple. Now he'll have more time to go out an surge that engine some more.
Viper_Dad loved this
2013 Yamaha FJR1300A
2013 Honda CRF250L
2018 Yamaha FZ-07
2019 Yamaha Tracer 900 GT
2013 Honda CRF250L
2018 Yamaha FZ-07
2019 Yamaha Tracer 900 GT
- Festus
- Contributor
- Veteran
- Posts: 4833
- Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 3:40 pm
- FJRModel: 2013 FJR, 2023 KTM 390 Adventure
- x 4035
- x 10851
Re: No first or second gear
We may have that figured out but it'll be a bit before we get to test it out.FJRPittsburgh wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 7:09 pm Now he'll have more time to go out an surge that engine some more.
Just to recap....
1) We swapped tanks and the problem went away, indicating a bad fuel pump.
2) He installed a new fuel pump (aftermarket) and the problem came back.
3) We did a wild goose chase on everything else.
4) Talked to Ivan (the Ivan's Flash Guy) and he said that the aftermarket fuel pump is known to have inconsistent pressure issues which it sounded like.
We think, at this point in time, that we essentially swapped out the fuel pump with a new one that continued the same problem, rather than eliminated it from the equation.
First chance we get to spend some time on them (without snow on the Blue Ridge Parkway), we are going to swap tanks again and see if that resolves it. If so, then we know it's the aftermarket fuel pump. Ivan knew all the specs and I only wish I could repeat what he said so I could explain it as well as he did.
bigjohnsd, Toter, and FJRPittsburgh loved this
"That wasn’t as bad as I thought it would be" - 1911
"Stay thirsty, my friends"....... Wouldn't that mean I'm dehydrated all the time?
"Stay thirsty, my friends"....... Wouldn't that mean I'm dehydrated all the time?
- raYzerman
- Contributor
- I post more than I ride
- Posts: 9621
- Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:49 am
- FJRModel: 2010 Honda CBF1000FA
- Location: Millgrove, Ontario, CA
- x 3108
- x 11476
Re: No first or second gear
The fuel pressure regulator is built into the fuel pump housing..... the pump itself can be replaced with an aftermarket one, but you'll still retain the original fuel pump regulator..... one can get a spare fuel supply hose and tee into it for a pressure test fitting..........
Keep yer stick on the ice........... (Red Green)
Duct tape can't fix stupid, but it can sure muffle the sound.
Duct tape can't fix stupid, but it can sure muffle the sound.
-
- Casual Rider
- Posts: 91
- Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2022 3:27 pm
- FJRModel: 2014-A
- Location: DFW, Texas
- x 201
- x 153
Re: No first or second gear
The fuel pressure regulator located in the fuel pump housing on the Gen 2 & 3 scooters is not available as a separate item from Yamaha.raYzerman wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2024 9:54 am The fuel pressure regulator is built into the fuel pump housing..... the pump itself can be replaced with an aftermarket one, but you'll still retain the original fuel pump regulator..... one can get a spare fuel supply hose and tee into it for a pressure test fitting..........
But it is a common fuel pressure regulator used in many automotive applications. When the fuel pressure regulator is removed from the fuel pump there is a part number stamped on it.
Using that part number, they are available from several sources.
This is just one of those sources.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/191684542894
dan
bigjohnsd, Festus, and wheatonFJR loved this
- Intech
- I'm Not Back
- Veteran
- Posts: 2613
- Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:35 am
- FJRModel: 2015
- Location: Virginia
- x 1233
- x 2935
Re: No first or second gear
Just out of curiosity, did you experience the surging with his tank?
RIP BeemerDonS JSNS
RIP Petey
RIP jwilly
RIP 1911
- Festus
- Contributor
- Veteran
- Posts: 4833
- Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 3:40 pm
- FJRModel: 2013 FJR, 2023 KTM 390 Adventure
- x 4035
- x 10851
Re: No first or second gear
I didn't ride with his tank on my bike, I don't think. I think it was simply taking my tank off, putting it on his bike, he test rode it for 20 minutes or so and said it was gone.
Intech loved this
"That wasn’t as bad as I thought it would be" - 1911
"Stay thirsty, my friends"....... Wouldn't that mean I'm dehydrated all the time?
"Stay thirsty, my friends"....... Wouldn't that mean I'm dehydrated all the time?