Need some insight

[Festus]

Took a long ride today with Viper Dad into the wonderfulness of WV.

I ran into an issue I've never experienced before and it shook me a little bit.

The symptom : Front tire washing out.

It was butt puckering moments. We know how solid these bikes are. To have my front tire washing out repeatedly is something I've never had happen, ever, on this bike, in 45,000 miles or so. I'd go into turns, just like always, then, in the turn, the front tire would slip over a couple inches, maybe up to 6". Direction didn't seem to matter. Tires are good.

Happened over and over. So much so, it shook my confidence level and I had to seriously back off to preserve life and limb.

We stopped and looked at the tires a couple of times.

What's changed? I took my MV Motorrad risers off and returned the bars to stock. Bars are tight.

Finally got onto solid ground again on one mountain pass with no signs of the issue. Only difference is that area was fresh pavement and hot (85 or higher air temp), while most of the day was spend riding in 70-75 degree air temps.

While riding after all of that, on the highway, I ran over a bungie cord end. I swerved and couldn't miss the hook and immediately switched my GPS screen over to my tire pressures. 45 psi.

Hummmm....... did I find the culprit? Tire pressure too high, makes front end wash out? That's my only thought.

[0face]

It seems to me, that if everything else is tight, it's the tire pressure... The only other thing I might consider would be that since you took the risers off, are you not being smooth in your transitions into the turn... too much violent "flicking" of the bars load the tire too quickly... but honestly unlikely, you'd really have to be pushing on the bars hard and suddenly.

But I'm sure someone else smarter than me will come along with all the right answers.

[Festus]

It seems to me, that if everything else is tight, it's the tire pressure... The only other thing I might consider would be that since you took the risers off, are you not being smooth in your transitions into the turn... too much violent "flicking" of the bars load the tire too quickly... but honestly unlikely, you'd really have to be pushing on the bars hard and suddenly.

But I'm sure someone else smarter than me will come along with all the right answers.

Nope, that's very helpful. Until I hit that thing and checked my pressure, the only variable we could figure out was that the bar risers changed the way I input into the tire and it was coming from me and my actions. I agree with you totally, it's all we could figure out until I happened to check the pressure and realize it was so high. I thought maybe since the pavement was hot and fresh, even at a higher pressure, they stuck like glue on that. I didn't change the pressure, because we were slabbing it at that point, so I didn't get another turn to try it out on.

[bigjohnsd]

How does tire pressure affect motorcycle handling?
Tire pressure and rider comfort are both very subjective, so the same pressure may not feel the same to two different riders. Pressure that is too low can result in sluggish handling and high tire temperatures. Pressure that is too high can result in worn-out center tread, reduced grip and a rougher-than-average ride.Dec 7, 2011

Motorcycle Tech Tips: Tire Pressure

[N4HHE]

I think it could have been tire pressure but hot 45 PSI is not that unusual from a starting 39 PSI.

That this happened multiple times I would have wished you to let 3 PSI out Just To See What Happens™.

[raYzerman]

OK obviously a hot asphalt day. Tire pressure of 40 cold will be 45 or more when hot, not unusual at all.... on scorching days mine have been over 51 and the TPMS screaming at me that I reached my preset limit.... I've never had a front slide out due to pressure or heat..... I did have a rear slip out on me when it was 95F and leaned hard into a turn, two up.
I have an acquaintance who habitually shreds front tires...... it's his style, and I think he goes into turns too hot.......
Fresh pavement, I take it a bit easier until it's a coupla weeks old and maybe rained on a couple of times.... while good, I don't entirely trust super fresh pavement...

[Festus]

The vast majority of the slipping was on pavement in the 70's. It wasn't until the hot pavement, that it stuck like normal, if that matters.

[rbentnail]

You don't mention the specific tire but for a given set of circumstances some tires just suck. I found PR2 were in this catagory in wet WV when they were fine elsewhere. Diablo Stradas sucked in the cold. Angel GT overall makes my ass end feel loose or squirrelly.

[wheatonFJR]

Weird.

I see the thoughts of the likely culprits, but your answers are negating them. Tire pressure, road surface, steering inputs, make of tire...I would have thought worn tire and hot asphalt that isn't cured or hardened yet...but your answers negate that. I agree that 45psi on a hot tire is within the normal zone. However, maybe these riding classes are just making you too damn fast. You may have to lower pressures due to your ability.

[Festus]

However, maybe these riding classes are just making you too damn fast. You may have to lower pressures due to your ability.

Definitely not that, I wasn't anywhere close to being fast when this was happening.

I will add these are the exact roads I rode 2 weeks ago with no issues at all. Only difference is bar riser and tire pressure.

[raYzerman]

So what were the tire pressures (cold) two weeks ago and this time? Did you have the same fresh asphalt on both occasions?

[Hppants]

I had this happen on my first set of Road 5s, about 2,000 miles into them. What I found was that the front was JUST starting to square off. It was very subtile, but you could see it a tad more on the right side. So - there was some resistence to my bar input, and then when I got to the squaring part, it would flop over considerably more and feel like the front was washing out. Couldn't wait to get rid of those POS tires.

Unfortunately, there would be a second set as at the time, I was in the middle of BFE Tennessee in need of tires and that is all they had. Same result, BTW - by 3,000 miles, the front was Sponge Bob Square Pants.

Another thought is that perhaps that new pavement had a little dirt/grit/fine gravel cleverly disquised in spots? Recently, I had this happen on the Cherahola Skyway. Lumberg warned me of it, so I was watching for it. Sure enough, on a few turns, there was a little bit of gravel/dirt and it was EXACTLY the same color/tone as the pavement. It did cause a few mild pucker moments but nothing too extravagant.

[Festus]

So what were the tire pressures (cold) two weeks ago and this time? Did you have the same fresh asphalt on both occasions?

38 two weeks ago (cold). It was low, and I left my compressor in my car. Yes, same pavement. Just for clarity, it stuck well on the new pavement.

I should note, Viper Dad was in front of me with the same tires and it was having zero issues with any of it. He had to slow down and wait for me every time, which is not the usual protocol. We usually ride extremely similar and no one typically leaves anyone too far behind, but that was not the case.

As the day goes on and the more and more I try to figure this out, the more I think it's a combination of the bar riser being removed, which changed the pressure, weight distribution, and torque on the bars from me, in conjunction with high pressure.

Only thing I can figure out. I've got a lot of miles on these roads and never had that feeling until now. I'm thinking the fresh, hot pavement helped at the end, when it was working, because we had talked about maybe it was my input to the bars, so I was conscious of it and trying to be a little lighter on the bars. At that point in time, I didn't know the tire pressure was that high, otherwise, I would have removed some air and give it another run.

[0face]

There is credence to Joey's point about the front squaring off. I experienced that as more of a sudden drop into the corner and not tire slide. although I'm sure it could cause a little slide with the right conditions.

I hate to say it in a room full of nerds who want to analyze every possible input.... but you might just have one of those tires that for whatever reason isn't performing how you'd like.

I'd swap the front tire, triple check the pressure is right where you want it cold, and try again. But I'd also double check I didn't do something stupid like not tighten a caliper bolt and have it fall out somewhere in Iowa and spend the next 1500 miles trying to figure wtf is going with front wheel.

[wheatonFJR]

I've had squared off front tires that is a little unnerving as you push past that and get to a meatier part of the that rarely sees wear. This past May I rode a little bit in the mountains with Lee and on the way home on 28 I was getting the same type of signal a couple three times, but it wasn't recovering like it normally would...as I stopped later in Clayton and looked at the front tire I realized it really was on the edge of traction and I WAS about out of traction.

[Festus]

It'll be a couple days before I'm home and can look at the tire. I don't recall it being squared off but I'll have another look at it.

[N4HHE]

Is there any chance the front tire is mounted backwards?

Have often wondered what would happen.

[raYzerman]

38 cold to 45 hot is right where it is expected to be..... I would hardly call that high.... on an FJR 40 cold is the minimum I would ever run, just my preference. If anything, I'd have added 2 psi to make it 47.... sidewalls might have been flexing making you "think" you were squirming around?
I've heard of issues with the Road5's, but I believe you're likely running Angel GT's...... shouldn't be a problem.... oh yes and they "look" like they are on backwards due to the tread pattern, I did that once (I ran it anyway and it was fine).

[Festus]

Is there any chance the front tire is mounted backwards?

Have often wondered what would happen.

Weren’t mounted backwards 2 weeks ago when it wasn’t happening (or all the other runs where they were fine).

[wheatonFJR]

Did you mount em tread side out?