Gen 3 surging

Tech section strictly for the FJR. Everything from oil changes & suspension setup's to removing sheep hair from hard to reach places on the bike so that your wife never finds out.
User avatar
extrememarine
HMFIC
I post more than I ride
Posts: 6825
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:17 pm
FJRModel: 2009 FJR
Location: SE Michigan
x 2068
x 12994
Contact:

Re: Gen 3 surging

Post by extrememarine »

Festus wrote: Sun Jul 02, 2023 9:06 am Since mice ate the wiring up when we got her, maybe there's a bad wire somewhere that we never saw?
This.

I had a weird electrical issue with my '94 Grand Cherokee - auto antenna would go up and down, radio would go in and out, one rear turn signal work work interimittently, other things, it seemed completely random. A shop spent 3 days trying to run it down with no luck. When I finally got feed up with it, I ripped into it. I found that when I "repair" a loose heat shield underneath the unibody, I ran a self-tapping screw through the floor to hold the heat shield (and keep it from rattling) and ran it right into a wire bundle on the inside of the cabin below the carpet under the rear seat. There was a section of wire bundle that, over about 6 months, had slowly shorted out and heated up to the point of melting the wire cover. I replaced a 12" section of wire bundle - there was about 10-15 wires in that section of the harness.

Long story short - if you know that there was mice in the bike chewing on stuff, it seems fairly reasonable that this sickness could be caused by a section of wire harness being mangled enough to ground out against other wires. It could be nearly invisable depending on where it is.

With all the parts that have been thrown at this with no resolution, I'd start looking hard at the wire harness - which is a project that would involve stripping the bike down to the frame.

Just my .02...
Ride There!
-Wayne aka asphalt surfer...

IBA#60836

#Peteyismyhero & #JWillywashere
User avatar
Viper_Dad
Member
Posts: 262
Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2018 4:35 pm
FJRModel: 2013
Location: Virginia, USA
x 465
x 466

Re: Gen 3 surging

Post by Viper_Dad »

I ran the diagnostics and here's the codes she's showing along with the brief description of each as provided in the service manual:

13 - Intake air pressure sensor short circuit detected

15 - Throttle position sensor short circuit detected

19 - Side stand switch broken lead at ECU

21 - Coolant temperature sensor short circuit detected

23 - Atmospheric pressure sensor short circuit detected

30 - Latch up detected

70 - Engine idling stop

90 - Front brake light switch and rear brake light switch short circuits detected

I did not clear the codes yet, figured I would post them here first. I assume the next step is to clear the codes, take her for a spin, then check the diagnostics again? And I agree, so far all signs point to that mischievous mouse! :angry:
FJRPittsburgh loved this
2013 - "Jolene"
Peter
User avatar
FJRoss
Veteran
Posts: 2663
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:41 pm
FJRModel: 2011 FJR 1300
2017 BMW F700GS
Location: Fredericton NB (Canada)
x 812
x 2387

Re: Gen 3 surging

Post by FJRoss »

Viper_Dad wrote: Mon Jul 10, 2023 10:48 pm I ran the diagnostics and here's the codes she's showing along with the brief description of each as provided in the service manual:

13 - Intake air pressure sensor short circuit detected

15 - Throttle position sensor short circuit detected

19 - Side stand switch broken lead at ECU

21 - Coolant temperature sensor short circuit detected

23 - Atmospheric pressure sensor short circuit detected

30 - Latch up detected

70 - Engine idling stop

90 - Front brake light switch and rear brake light switch short circuits detected

I did not clear the codes yet, figured I would post them here first. I assume the next step is to clear the codes, take her for a spin, then check the diagnostics again? And I agree, so far all signs point to that mischievous mouse! :angry:
Wow!!
It will be interesting to see how quickly (or if) these return once they are cleared.
#13, 15 and 23 could all be significant in view of what is happening. Even sidestand (19) could cause dropouts.
(How did we get this far without looking at fault codes?)
Viper_Dad loved this
User avatar
raYzerman
Contributor
I post more than I ride
Posts: 9621
Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:49 am
FJRModel: 2010 Honda CBF1000FA
Location: Millgrove, Ontario, CA
x 3108
x 11476

Re: Gen 3 surging

Post by raYzerman »

Clear them...... I suspect all triggered by having the battery disconnected and reconnected at some point who knows when..... the bike is running, so all of that history does not apply, nor does it matter. What matters is now. Go ride for half an hour come back and go back into DiAG and tell us what you got.
Viper_Dad and wheatonFJR loved this
Keep yer stick on the ice........... (Red Green)
Duct tape can't fix stupid, but it can sure muffle the sound.
User avatar
FJRoss
Veteran
Posts: 2663
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:41 pm
FJRModel: 2011 FJR 1300
2017 BMW F700GS
Location: Fredericton NB (Canada)
x 812
x 2387

Re: Gen 3 surging

Post by FJRoss »

raYzerman wrote: Tue Jul 11, 2023 7:41 am Clear them...... I suspect all triggered by having the battery disconnected and reconnected at some point who knows when..... the bike is running, so all of that history does not apply, nor does it matter. What matters is now. Go ride for half an hour come back and go back into DiAG and tell us what you got.
Agree 100%. If they don't come back, it was probably an electrical glitch at some point - connecting/disconnecting the battery or cranking with a weak battery with subsequent start failure.
If faults do come back, there is something to work with!
Viper_Dad loved this
User avatar
extrememarine
HMFIC
I post more than I ride
Posts: 6825
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:17 pm
FJRModel: 2009 FJR
Location: SE Michigan
x 2068
x 12994
Contact:

Re: Gen 3 surging

Post by extrememarine »

Here, I have a solution.

Step 1 - Sell this POS to me as is. I have 5 Benjamin's burning a hole in my pocket.
Step 2 - Google closest Yamaha dealer
Step 2a - strike that, you already know where the closest Yamaha dealer is with a FJR in stock...
Step 3 - Go buy it.

I'll swing down before EOM with the trailer and pick POS up to get it out of your way and hair...

Friends helping friends... :)
FJRPittsburgh, Viper_Dad, El Toro Joe and 2 others loved this
Ride There!
-Wayne aka asphalt surfer...

IBA#60836

#Peteyismyhero & #JWillywashere
User avatar
Viper_Dad
Member
Posts: 262
Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2018 4:35 pm
FJRModel: 2013
Location: Virginia, USA
x 465
x 466

Re: Gen 3 surging

Post by Viper_Dad »

extrememarine wrote: Tue Jul 11, 2023 8:26 am Here, I have a solution.

Step 1 - Sell this POS to me as is. I have 5 Benjamin's burning a hole in my pocket.
Step 2 - Google closest Yamaha dealer
Step 2a - strike that, you already know where the closest Yamaha dealer is with a FJR in stock...
Step 3 - Go buy it.

I'll swing down before EOM with the trailer and pick POS up to get it out of your way and hair...

Friends helping friends... :)
Hahaha this made me LOL for real. There's a '23 at my local dealer with 1 mile on it and I have pondered that purchase a lot lately. Now if only I had $18,299 just lying around.

Back to reality, I'll clear the codes and ride her tomorrow after work and see what comes up!
FJRoss and wheatonFJR loved this
2013 - "Jolene"
Peter
User avatar
Festus
Contributor
Veteran
Posts: 4833
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 3:40 pm
FJRModel: 2013 FJR, 2023 KTM 390 Adventure
x 4035
x 10851

Re: Gen 3 surging

Post by Festus »

Viper_Dad wrote: Tue Jul 11, 2023 1:31 pm Hahaha this made me LOL for real. There's a '23 at my local dealer with 1 mile on it and I have pondered that purchase a lot lately. Now if only I had $18,299 just lying around.
I double dog dare you to buy it :D
FJRPittsburgh, blind squirrel, and wheatonFJR loved this
"That wasn’t as bad as I thought it would be" - 1911

"Stay thirsty, my friends"....... Wouldn't that mean I'm dehydrated all the time?
User avatar
blind squirrel
Veteran
Posts: 1711
Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 9:09 pm
FJRModel: 2014
Location: Lexington SC
x 1348
x 2368

Re: Gen 3 surging

Post by blind squirrel »

Festus wrote: Tue Jul 11, 2023 1:39 pm
Viper_Dad wrote: Tue Jul 11, 2023 1:31 pm Hahaha this made me LOL for real. There's a '23 at my local dealer with 1 mile on it and I have pondered that purchase a lot lately. Now if only I had $18,299 just lying around.
I double dog dare you to buy it :D
If you TRIPLE dog dare him, he will HAVE to do it! But you better expect the fire department and the cops to show up after he does.

raYzerman and wheatonFJR loved this
"That feeling is your taint telling you, 'this is a bad idea...'" - extrememarine
User avatar
extrememarine
HMFIC
I post more than I ride
Posts: 6825
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:17 pm
FJRModel: 2009 FJR
Location: SE Michigan
x 2068
x 12994
Contact:

Re: Gen 3 surging

Post by extrememarine »

Update - all you need is $17,799 because I'm going to give you $500 when I pick up the mouse nest...

:D
Viper_Dad wrote: Tue Jul 11, 2023 1:31 pm Hahaha this made me LOL for real. There's a '23 at my local dealer with 1 mile on it and I have pondered that purchase a lot lately. Now if only I had $18,299 just lying around.

Back to reality, I'll clear the codes and ride her tomorrow after work and see what comes up!
Someone's going to stumble across this and make a comment about why I don't have a T7 in the garage yet - I present exhibit A and B, which required Exhibit C.

Exhibit A:
Image

Exhibit B:
Image

Exhibit C:
Image
Image
Toter, FJRPittsburgh, Viper_Dad and 1 others loved this
Ride There!
-Wayne aka asphalt surfer...

IBA#60836

#Peteyismyhero & #JWillywashere
wheatonFJR
Contributor
I post more than I ride
Posts: 20387
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2013 6:10 pm
FJRModel: 2013-Jwilly Special LD Delivery
Location: Travelers Rest
x 43541
x 18904

Re: Gen 3 surging

Post by wheatonFJR »

I think there is already a 2023 vin number with his name on it.
Viper_Dad loved this
boatanchor, 3rd class.
User avatar
Festus
Contributor
Veteran
Posts: 4833
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 3:40 pm
FJRModel: 2013 FJR, 2023 KTM 390 Adventure
x 4035
x 10851

Re: Gen 3 surging

Post by Festus »

extrememarine wrote: Tue Jul 11, 2023 2:23 pm Someone's going to stumble across this and make a comment about why I don't have a T7 in the garage yet - I present exhibit A and B, which required
I'm not up on my current market pricing but I'd think you could more than cover the cost of the T7 if you sold all of those things :)
blind squirrel and wheatonFJR loved this
"That wasn’t as bad as I thought it would be" - 1911

"Stay thirsty, my friends"....... Wouldn't that mean I'm dehydrated all the time?
User avatar
extrememarine
HMFIC
I post more than I ride
Posts: 6825
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:17 pm
FJRModel: 2009 FJR
Location: SE Michigan
x 2068
x 12994
Contact:

Re: Gen 3 surging

Post by extrememarine »

I smell what you're cooking, and it smells like a poor decision. I've made enough of those in my life already...
Festus wrote: Tue Jul 11, 2023 2:39 pm
extrememarine wrote: Tue Jul 11, 2023 2:23 pm Someone's going to stumble across this and make a comment about why I don't have a T7 in the garage yet - I present exhibit A and B, which required
I'm not up on my current market pricing but I'd think you could more than cover the cost of the T7 if you sold all of those things :)
wheatonFJR loved this
Ride There!
-Wayne aka asphalt surfer...

IBA#60836

#Peteyismyhero & #JWillywashere
User avatar
Viper_Dad
Member
Posts: 262
Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2018 4:35 pm
FJRModel: 2013
Location: Virginia, USA
x 465
x 466

Re: Gen 3 surging

Post by Viper_Dad »

Cleared the codes. Rode her 40 miles. Checked her diagnostics again. No codes. Surging is still there.

Crap.
2013 - "Jolene"
Peter
User avatar
FJRoss
Veteran
Posts: 2663
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:41 pm
FJRModel: 2011 FJR 1300
2017 BMW F700GS
Location: Fredericton NB (Canada)
x 812
x 2387

Re: Gen 3 surging

Post by FJRoss »

Check again after another couple hundred, but I suspect the codes were a red herring. Would have been nice if one pointed to a probable faulty device.

Can't remember if you tried running with the O2 sensor disconnected. Not sure how a Gen III would behave but I know a Gen II doesn't mind. I also know that a Gen II does mind an incorrect O2 reading. (Long story)
Viper_Dad loved this
User avatar
Intech
I'm Not Back
Veteran
Posts: 2613
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:35 am
FJRModel: 2015
Location: Virginia
x 1233
x 2935

Re: Gen 3 surging

Post by Intech »

Drop that thing off here and I will go through the harness to check for other rodent damage.

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

FJRPittsburgh and LKLD loved this
Image
RIP BeemerDonS JSNS
RIP Petey
RIP jwilly
RIP 1911
User avatar
Toter
Veteran
Posts: 1011
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2019 8:01 am
FJRModel: 2015 FJR 1300 ES "Renee", 2021 BMW R1250GS Rallye, 2022 BMW R1250GS Adventure, 2016 DRZ 400S (Bush Piglet)
Location: North Georgia
x 1501
x 2152

Re: Gen 3 surging

Post by Toter »

Approaching 3 years of spanking the monkey on this problem, throwing parts at it, and 3 years of enjoyable riding lost. Paying a professional good money 3 years ago to fix it may have cost some money, but, well spent if it delivered a bike you could have been enjoying. Life's too short to fight something so long. 11 pages........
I spent most of my money on guns, motorcycles, women, and whiskey. The rest I just wasted!
User avatar
Festus
Contributor
Veteran
Posts: 4833
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 3:40 pm
FJRModel: 2013 FJR, 2023 KTM 390 Adventure
x 4035
x 10851

Re: Gen 3 surging

Post by Festus »

Toter wrote: Tue Jul 25, 2023 10:43 pm Approaching 3 years of spanking the monkey on this problem, throwing parts at it, and 3 years of enjoyable riding lost. Paying a professional good money 3 years ago to fix it may have cost some money, but, well spent if it delivered a bike you could have been enjoying. Life's too short to fight something so long. 11 pages........
I think you are misunderstanding the situation. When I have said "Let's work on it", he said "Screw that, let's go riding". No riding has been lost.

There's no one in this area I'd let change the oil, much less work on my motorcycle. It'll get solved. Viper Dad has had a very busy life for the last couple of years. When things settle down, I'm confident it'll be resolved.
FJRPittsburgh, Toter, LKLD and 1 others loved this
"That wasn’t as bad as I thought it would be" - 1911

"Stay thirsty, my friends"....... Wouldn't that mean I'm dehydrated all the time?
User avatar
raYzerman
Contributor
I post more than I ride
Posts: 9621
Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:49 am
FJRModel: 2010 Honda CBF1000FA
Location: Millgrove, Ontario, CA
x 3108
x 11476

Re: Gen 3 surging

Post by raYzerman »

I don't think the "professionals" would have done as much or been as thorough..... they would have thrown parts at it too. That said, I'd like to have that bike for a few days to check it out myself.
FJRPittsburgh, wheatonFJR, and LKLD loved this
Keep yer stick on the ice........... (Red Green)
Duct tape can't fix stupid, but it can sure muffle the sound.
User avatar
Festus
Contributor
Veteran
Posts: 4833
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 3:40 pm
FJRModel: 2013 FJR, 2023 KTM 390 Adventure
x 4035
x 10851

Re: Gen 3 surging

Post by Festus »

There's a FB group for FJR mechanics. I posted about this issue on there. Someone posted that we need to swap the Mass Air Flow Sensors. I questioned where they were, since the manual didn't list anything as Mass Air Flow Sensors. Silly me for asking a question, the person that said that responded "Then don't listen to me".

I thought it was an honest question, but I guess not, but none the less, it's the 2 sensors on top of the throttle bodies. Same part number for both. Viper Dad finally swapped them a week ago and it changed nothing.

I guess the last step is swapping the ECU? Any harm in doing that between our bikes? Just unplug and swap?
"That wasn’t as bad as I thought it would be" - 1911

"Stay thirsty, my friends"....... Wouldn't that mean I'm dehydrated all the time?
Post Reply