My Clutch is Slipping

[FJRoss]

I have seen some pictures taken before a clutch soak and the fiber disks and steels looked pretty crappy.
Change to a different oil - I've used the T6 without any issue for many years but some people have had issues, as Jasen mentioned.
There is a possibility of a weak clutch spring and possibly taking the clutch apart, scrubbing the steels with a mild abrasive and mineral spirits and wiping the friction disks "might" help. Not that bad a job to do.
Serious clutch problems are most unusual for FJRs unless they have been abused. 295,000 km on my '07 when I sold it without ever doing anything with the clutch. 120,000 km on the '11 with no issues.

[raYzerman]

...I used Rotella T6 ...Within 10K miles I started having issues...I replaced it all and started using Mobil 1 motorcycle oil instead. No issues since...

Changing the oil & filter is certainly the quickest, easiest and and probably the least expensive thing to try -- after a full clutch lever service.

This is the answer very most likely, get new oil you know is bike specific. If it were me, I'd have the clutch cover off and at least douse the plates with the new oil while holding the clutch lever (plates separated) to get the new oil in there as much as possible. Not saying you have to, I said if it were me, 'cuz I'm anal and can. If you do, and if you're careful, you can remove that cover and the gasket will remain intact, much like the one on the timing cover, it's a good one. I've only ever replaced one timing cover gasket and that was at the request of the owner.... how may times have we done valve checks? A bunch.
No oil pressure in there, it's all splash.

[Cav47]

Here are the pics of the bushing. Before I go tearing into my clutch. What do you think about this?








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[FJRoss]

Bushing is still pretty much round but the hole is wallowed out and it is badly chewed up. Definitely past due for replacement.

[Festus]

That does not look good. Replace it, but you can lightly sand it smooth, lube it up and try it again. That’s a lot of gouging on the OD.

[extrememarine]

Consider this theory- if that bushing has been gunked up and the pivot point sticky for a while, the clutch lever not being fully released over an undetermined amount of time could have allowed the clutch to slip slightly and cause premature wear of the plates.

Thoughts from the collective?

Point is, beyond the bushing, the next steps would be to pull the clutch plates and service them.

[Cav47]

Consider this theory- if that bushing has been gunked up and the pivot point sticky for a while, the clutch lever not being fully released over an undetermined amount of time could have allowed the clutch to slip slightly and cause premature wear of the plates.

Thoughts from the collective?

Point is, beyond the bushing, the next steps would be to pull the clutch plates and service them.

All good info on the bushing. Tonight I am going to mess with the bushing. Sand it up some, then lube and re install. The pin that the bushing pushes in was also gunked up a little. That popped out when I was inspecting it. I am having a little trouble getting it to re insert into the rubber boot.


After that, I am going to bleed the clutch.

And change the oil with something besides Rotella T6.

Now if that doesn’t work, my plan is to open the clutch. Here is where the real problem is....... everyone keeps saying to “inspect” the plates. Well, if you don’t know what a good plate looks like, then you can’t tell what a bad plate looks like. So inspection doesn’t mean crap if you don’t have a reference picture. But I am gonna give it a shot tonight.

[gixxerjasen]

You can get a micrometer and measure the plate thickness, that should tell you if they are good or not. Like I said, mine were in spec and she was still slipping.

Clutch work is pretty simple. Block the Jesus hole. Make sure you go friction metal friction metal and not friction friction metal metal, put the right bolts back in the right holes, you should be good to go.

This guy...still has his page up. Seriously good info and photographs here.

https://atrophy.lock.net/pi/20100320/in ... CF5883.jpg

Careful how much time you spend messing with it though, you are running out quick and will likely be paying for next day shipping to get it ready to go. But if you need to tear it apart, we can help for sure. You got this! If not, bring the smarter one into the garage (Spawn) and we can talk her through it for sure.

[Cav47]

I talked to OFace and he has his plates still. That may be an option if it gets to nut cutting time.

Oil is draining now.

Question for the group, will I need to drain the oil out if I end up opening the clutch cover??

[gixxerjasen]

IIRC, if you have it on the side stand, no. But....

[Cav47]

Oil is a changed, clutch is bled, brass bushing was lightly sanded, cleaned, and greased.


If that doesn’t fix the problem, then it is gonna be time to tear into the clutch plates.

Thanks for all the help. I will post up the result from tomorrow’s test ride.

[rbentnail]

Just throwing data out there.
I used Rotella T6 in a bunch of bikes, never any issues. I used it in my FJR from the time I got it. Within 10K miles I started having issues. It was slipping bad at 50K. The AE system always threw more clutch related errors right after an oil change, then subsided a bit till I changed it again.

I replaced it all and started using Mobil 1 motorcycle oil instead. No issues since. Measurements on the clutch plates were in spec, so they weren't worn down.

Is T6 bad for the FJR? Maybe. I don't know. It's a commonality though between our issues.

As we discussed last night, if the lever doesn't fix it, I'd not risk the trip messing around with a whole bunch of testing when shipping times aren't normal in our current COVID19 world. I'd act as soon as possible to save that amazing trip with your daughter out west. If there weren't a trip riding on all of this, I'd say try all other options first, but...

Let me know if you need any help.

Oh yea, and one other tip I forgot to tell you last night. As soon as that cover comes off the bike, before you do anything else, FILL THE JESUS HOLE!

I'm glad you brought this up. Last time I did I got shit on unmercifully.

My '07 hates Rotella T6, always has. Shittiest oil on the planet for my bike.

[bill lumberg]

That shouldn’t pop out. Not during normal maintenance. Kind of weird. Bushing is more worn than mine have ever been. But not terribly misshapen. Needs replacement from the first source available. Wayne says it. Either the is was bad enough long enough to cook your plates, or it wasn’t. Function after fluid/ oil change and cleaning all surfaces involving the lever and mount service will tell the tale.

Consider this theory- if that bushing has been gunked up and the pivot point sticky for a while, the clutch lever not being fully released over an undetermined amount of time could have allowed the clutch to slip slightly and cause premature wear of the plates.

Thoughts from the collective?

Point is, beyond the bushing, the next steps would be to pull the clutch plates and service them.

All good info on the bushing. Tonight I am going to mess with the bushing. Sand it up some, then lube and re install. The pin that the bushing pushes in was also gunked up a little. That popped out when I was inspecting it. I am having a little trouble getting it to re insert into the rubber boot.


After that, I am going to bleed the clutch.

And change the oil with something besides Rotella T6.

Now if that doesn’t work, my plan is to open the clutch. Here is where the real problem is....... everyone keeps saying to “inspect” the plates. Well, if you don’t know what a good plate looks like, then you can’t tell what a bad plate looks like. So inspection doesn’t mean crap if you don’t have a reference picture. But I am gonna give it a shot tonight.

[extrememarine]

It's almost 10am and no update.

Josh - get Spawn to set up a webcam or Zoom meetings so we can see what's going on!

Seriously though - take a breath, be calm, you'll get this sorted out...

Wayne

[BikerGeek]

I honestly don’t recall the last time I disassembled the clutch levers.

What the holy hell....

Levers?

How many clutch levers does yer bike have??

[Cav47]

9am. Central time Some of us still have to work a little in the summer too. School duties. And we actually get to start football workouts today. Only 9 per group. But I digress.


I am running a couple errands in the truck and then going hime to check out the bike.

If I have to open up that clutch, I guarantee we will have some type of live event going for help.

Let’s all pray that is not needed.

[Cav47]

I honestly don’t recall the last time I disassembled the clutch levers.

What the holy hell....

Levers?

How many clutch levers does yer bike have??

I did the extra one that Gixxer doesn’t have! Lol

[extrememarine]

suggestion - since assistance will be via remote access - phone, etc. Take pictures at every step along the way for a reference for yourself. Video is helpful in the same manner if you have a gopro and mount that puts it on your head or hat.

Good luck.

[gixxerjasen]

I honestly don’t recall the last time I disassembled the clutch levers.

What the holy hell....

Levers?

How many clutch levers does yer bike have??

I did the extra one that Gixxer doesn’t have! Lol

I was going to say, some of us have zero. Most have one. Apparently some have two or more.

[raYzerman]

Go get a new bushing at your local bike dealer... $7-10. Although yours doesn't appear too bad, minor wear is magnified in a lever situation. As for the teardown, no oil drain necessary, on side stand lets you see stuff better, and yes stuff a rag in the big hole so you don't drop something in the crankcase.
To keep it simple, as you remove parts, keep track of the orientation and order stuff is removed in, it all goes back the same way... there are a couple different thicknesses of plates at the first and last, all others in between are interchangeable. There are large steel spring washers, must go back the same way. EZ if you just lay them all out on piece of cardboard.... not complicated.
Do not lose the ball bearing on the outer end of the actuating rod that comes from the slave cylinder. Should be stuck in there with grease, but it can fall out and you'll have a helluva time finding a replacement if it drops into the Jesus hole.
You're looking for dirty, grit (take pics please), just clean all with a toothbrush and mild solvent such as Seafoam, naptha (ligher fluid/camp stove fuel), or mineral spirits (Varsol). Little wipe with isopropanol wouldn't hurt... trying to get the Rotella T6 off.
There is a wire retainer for the last plate, PITA to get to, the two ends are hooked into a hole in the clutch basket... pull one end out and you're homefree... getting it back in later... keep the swear jar handy, but not that bad really, be patient. That last plate in there is really the one that has that big bevel shaped ring (spring) and gets actual oil lubrication from the engine, from the inside. If you think it's too much of a PITA, then leave the darn thing alone, it will get flushed soon enough, but it can have gritty friction plate residue.... really not that big of a deal.
Measure the friction plates, minimum 2.8mm/.110" thick... don't worry about the metal plates.
Coat liberally the friction plates in your new engine oil, optional soak for a few minutes... they really do not 'absorb' as much as actually filling the pores on the surface and the big benefit is having oil on everything (you'll find a lot of them dry when you disassemble).
Reassemble alternating steel and friction plates, doesn't matter how they go rotation-wise as long as the fit in the basket. They only fit a couple of ways, keyed so to speak. BTW, look for grooves worn into the outer clutch basket "keys" that can cause plates to stick, but I expect that to be minor. Clean up with a file if you have to, shouldn't be that bad at that mileage.
Near the end, make sure the clutch rod ball bearing and sleeve and bearing in the pressure plate all go together properly and easily, then put your bolts in and snug them up. Check clutch operation, pull the lever and pressure comes off the plates, a couple will separate as they should.
All good, then button 'er up. If your gasket has a spot or two needing RTV, then smear a bit on. Snug up the cover screws alternately in a couple of steps to get the cover seated on the dowels and gasket making contact, then final snug to ensure they are all the same (order really won't matter a bunch).

I still doubt you need new plates, but if you're wanting to be safe, either get new ones/used ones whatever... use if thickness OK, but beware of mail delays these days, you're rapidly approaching D-Day.

Assuming since you're in school system, you know how to RTFM. Torque values... the bolts on the pressure plate important not to be too loose but don't strip them either, only 5.8 ft. lbs. and you don't have a torque wrench that accurate.... clean the threads with alcohol and put some blue loctite on there to give you some leeway range on torque and can be a tad undertorque yet not come loose later. Gudensnug is gudenuff, you can feel when they're tight and going more will do no good.

Let us know when this party's happening....... this whole job is about an hour..... well, OK two for the uninitiated. It's really very simple.